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OP has to put that forward himself, if he hasn't already. I think summoning that courage will be a big positive change for him long term, even if short term he loses a friend.
If it were me, truthfully I wouldn’t even bother. People who think like that are almost always too stubborn to change their opinions, even if you provide a list of reasons as large as a copy of War and Peace.
I am attracted to muscular women, and I’m secure enough in my own attraction to not give a shit what other people think. I hope OP can do the same
Oh I’m not saying he should be in the business of changing minds but it’s either accept me for who I am, all of it, or hit the highway
Part of it is that he might have to embrace more of that. I own it and many of not all of my friends know my inclinations (though not the full extent) and it’s now a fun joke. Even though I’m serious.
He'll do it in one form or another. It may just be subtle hints...
It's always worth it to try with a friend though. Clearly his friend at one point didn't mind, then his mind changed. Perhaps that's the key (understanding why the drastic change took place)?
I hope we get a conclusion to this soap opera. It probably affects more people than we think...
There is a wonderful note that puts everything in its place (translated by google in russian forum) The original source http://femtime.maxbb.ru/topic420.html
So, we are dealing with FETISH. By nature, one of the foundations of a fetish is Attribute. The attribute replaces the object of sexual interest, as is often the case in the case of a fetish.
Sthenolagnia is a muscle body fetish. The main attribute and object of adoration here is MUSCLES.
Cratolagnia is a fetish of power. The main attribute of sexual attention here is a demonstration of POWER. But these two fetishes, often very often coexist or even coexist in one person, since the presence of developed muscles already a priori implies the presence of strength and vice versa.
In one case or another, the object of sexual interest here is the demonstration of the physical EXCELLENCE of the sexual partner. It is widely believed that this phenomenon is often manifested among men and much less common among women. According to statistics, for men who are influenced by the fetish of Power, an INDISPENSABLE AND MANDATORY CONDITION of their sexual interest is the presence as a sexual partner of only a specimen of the EXACTLY FEMALE SEX (that is, a HETEROSEXUAL relationship). Along with this, a woman's addiction to masculine strength and the physically developed body of a man is a widespread phenomenon and is not a deviation or a fetish, because this is inherent in nature, that is, a man should be stronger than a woman. On the contrary, if a woman experiences sexual arousal from another woman who has developed muscles and physical strength, then this phenomenon is HOMOSEXUAL in color (lesbian sex) in which one of the female partners must be dominant, which is an indispensable rule in homosexual relationships. The same goes for homosexuality among men. As we can see, Sthenolagnia, Cratolagnia and Lesbianism and Pederasty (in men) lie in OPPOSITE areas of human sexual nature - Sthenolagnia in the heterophile, Lesbianism and Pederasty in the homophile. But still, there are frequent cases of manifestation of Sthenolagnia among homosexual couples. In general, we can conclude that in general fetishes do not belong to either a homo or a heterophilic nature. But here Wallagnation presents a very strange surprise, due to which, probably, many psychologists, sexologists and ordinary people consider this phenomenon to be hidden homosexuality. This surprise lies in the fact that the partners are PARTIALLY reversal of roles during the Wall. The reversal of roles occurs in consciousness and fantasies, but at the same time the partners are fully aware of what gender they belong to and feel it. It is this understanding that only spurs on, enhances their sexual attraction to each other (or attraction only unilaterally). For a man, it is desirable for a woman to have very developed muscles and be physically strong, even stronger than the man himself. For his part, a man (usually the majority, although there are exceptions) feels a kind of helplessness and weakness in front of a woman partner and deliberately becomes passive. He likes to succumb to her, surrender to her will, or, on the contrary, compete with her, but only with the aim of checking and making sure (although this is rather self-hypnosis) that she is stronger than him. He begins to behave like a woman during games before intercourse. However, he is fully aware that he is a man. Most often, a woman has a dominant position in such a relationship, she is a DOMINATOR. Her will is stronger than that of a man, and she suppresses his will with her own. Some physically strong women like it - to subjugate a man, although there are many exceptions, however, not related to Sthenolagnia. Such women specifically build muscle and engage in strength sports and seem to revel in demonstrating their strength and superiority over men in order to increase their sexuality. Apparently, this is precisely where the difference in approach to this fetish lies - a woman demonstrates her strength and muscles, getting excited, and a man contemplates the woman's muscles, experiencing arousal. Thus, we can talk about the ACTIVE and PASSIVE side of this fetish. That is, as in normal sexual practice, with Sthenolagnia, partners are divided into active and passive, with the only difference that the active and dominant partner here is a woman, and the passive partner is a man. Although under normal conditions we have all met men who love to show off their muscles. So this phenomenon is widespread in the normal sexual life of people. However, Emancipation greatly captured the minds of women in the 20th century, and contributed to the development of Sthenolagnia in many ways. The emergence of sports such as bodybuilding clearly demonstrates the active participation in female competition. A woman demonstrates her greatly enlarged muscles, exposing them to a man, BUT at the same time, a woman does not feel like a man (if she is subject to Sthenolagnia), she even likes to be a woman at this moment, but behaves like a "dominant male". There is a hypertrophy of the female sexual libido. Sexual energy is amplified many times over and overrides all conventions and foundations associated with femininity. This is what a PARTIAL role reversal means - only the behavior changes, not the essence. A woman remains a woman, and a man remains a man. It is important - who has more power, on whose side EXCELLENCE. This is a kind of competition, where the answer is obvious, but not natural. As a result, a conflict arises in the subconscious, which somehow turns into strong sexual arousal. For a man an ATTRIBUTE of a fetish, an attribute of STRENGTH is overdeveloped FEMALE MUSCLES, tense, rolling, elastic, covered with swollen veins and often, preferably, much larger than his own. Apparently such a female body is a Falic symbol for a man. The entire female body is like a huge, erect penis, bloodshot and very elastic - the highest point of arousal. Since, physiologically, a man can experience sexual pleasure with the help of only the penis, which in fact is the main organ of sensation in a man's sexual life, then subconsciously, looking at a muscular female body, he associates a woman as a part of his penis that is overgrown and prevailing over it. ... At the same time, he clearly understands that there is a woman in front of him, he likes the presence of primary sexual characteristics - breasts, vagina as well as the proportions of the pelvis, waist, shoulders, likes the smell of her body, the absence of vegetation on her face and limbs, femininity and softness of her movements. Here we must also add that with Sthenolagnia, muscle GROWTH is of great importance for a man. It is the very fact of growth, its current process (in dynamics), and not the end result. Bloated biceps and calves, rolling and swelling under the skin of the veins and tendons. Among men, the cult of biceps is widespread - this is one of the most expressive muscles in the human body, by its size and shape you can clearly judge the strength of your partner, they really like to watch how the biceps increase, how it hardens, how the veins swell on it, touch it, check for strength. The end result of muscle growth is interesting in terms of comparison with what it was before, and how much the muscles have grown now, compare them with your muscles. All this clearly shows the man how much the woman has surpassed him in strength development and how excited she is. And this representation is directly proportional and analogous to the sexual arousal of a man.
I think that the Sthenolagnia includes many similar, but at the same time, different fetishes that accompany her as fellow travelers. Different people who are prone to wall depression have fetishes that complement or reinforce it. Foot fetish is an addiction to female feet. It is generally accepted that the leg is a phallic symbol, which is probably why it so often attracts men. Women's legs are slender, long, usually more developed in the hips and calves, because in their physiology, women have a more developed pelvic region, because there are the organs of reproduction and bearing offspring. The thighs are massive and have a well-developed circulatory system. Of course, men with a fetish of strength focus their attention on this superiority in the development of legs in women. In fact, this superiority is imaginary, seeming, and that's what it is - in terms of its proportions, the female body usually has parameters of the following order: wide hips, developed pelvis, narrow waist (as a rule), again a wide chest (relative to the waist), including breasts and protruding collarbones and shoulders. Since a man watching a woman at this moment cannot have any way to correlate his proportions with the proportions of the observed woman, unless, of course, there is some other man next to the woman. In nature, the female body is much lower and smaller than the male body. Therefore, during observation, it seems to men that women's legs and shoulders look much more massive and more prominent than a man's compared to the waist, which only emphasizes the size of the legs and shoulders due to its thinness. Well, if a woman is engaged in bodybuilding at the same time, then the sensation increases many times over, since this sport really greatly increases the muscles of the legs and shoulders. However, with Sthenolagnia, very often men like the calf area. In some ways, calves resemble biceps - they rise more clearly and stand out during contraction, thereby clearly showing the process of "growth". At the same time, the legs, in comparison with the hands, are much larger than them, even larger and stronger than the male hands. Again I came to the fact of physical superiority. Probably it is the fact of superiority that is the stimulus for excitement.
In general, we can conclude that in general fetishes do not belong to either a homo or a heterophilic nature. But here Wallagnation presents a very strange surprise, due to which, probably, many psychologists, sexologists and ordinary people consider this phenomenon to be hidden homosexuality. This surprise lies in the fact that the partners are PARTIALLY reversal of roles during the Wall. The reversal of roles occurs in consciousness and fantasies, but at the same time the partners are fully aware of what gender they belong to and feel it. It is this understanding that only spurs on, enhances their sexual attraction to each other (or attraction only unilaterally). For a man, it is desirable for a woman to have very developed muscles and be physically strong, even stronger than the man himself. For his part, a man (usually the majority, although there are exceptions) feels a kind of helplessness and weakness in front of a woman partner and deliberately becomes passive. He likes to succumb to her, surrender to her will, or, on the contrary, compete with her, but only with the aim of checking and making sure (although this is rather self-hypnosis) that she is stronger than him. He begins to behave like a woman during games before intercourse. However, he is fully aware that he is a man. Most often, a woman has a dominant position in such a relationship, she is a DOMINATOR. Her will is stronger than that of a man, and she suppresses his will with her own. Some physically strong women like it - to subjugate a man, although there are many exceptions, however, not related to Stenolagnia. Such women specifically build muscle and engage in strength sports and seem to revel in demonstrating their strength and superiority over men in order to increase their sexuality. Apparently, this is precisely where the difference in approach to this fetish lies - a woman demonstrates her strength and muscles, getting excited, and a man contemplates the woman's muscles, experiencing arousal. Thus, we can talk about the ACTIVE and PASSIVE side of this fetish. That is, as in normal sexual practice, with Stenolnenia, partners are divided into active and passive, with the only difference that the active and dominant partner here is a woman, and the passive partner is a man. Although under normal conditions we have all met men who love to show off their muscles. So this phenomenon is widespread in the normal sexual life of people. However, Emancipation greatly captured the minds of women in the 20th century, and contributed to the development of Stenolagnia in many ways. The emergence of sports such as bodybuilding clearly demonstrates the active participation in female competition. A woman demonstrates her greatly enlarged muscles, exposing them to a man, BUT at the same time, a woman does not feel like a man (if she is subject to Stenagnia), she even likes to be a woman at this moment, but behaves like a "dominant male". There is a hypertrophy of the female sexual libido. Sexual energy is amplified many times over and overrides all conventions and foundations associated with femininity. This is what a PARTIAL role reversal means - only the behavior changes, not the essence. A woman remains a woman, and a man remains a man. It is important - who has more power, on whose side EXCELLENCE. This is a kind of competition, where the answer is obvious, but not natural. As a result, a conflict arises in the subconscious, which somehow turns into strong sexual arousal. For a man an ATTRIBUTE of a fetish, an attribute of STRENGTH is overdeveloped FEMALE MUSCLES, tense, rolling, elastic, covered with swollen veins and often, preferably, much larger than his own. Apparently such a female body is a Falic symbol for a man. The entire female body is like a huge, erect penis, bloodshot and very elastic - the highest point of arousal. Since, physiologically, a man can experience sexual pleasure with the help of only the penis, which in fact is the main organ of sensation in a man's sexual life, then subconsciously, looking at a muscular female body, he associates a woman as a part of his penis that is overgrown and prevailing over it. ... At the same time, he clearly understands that there is a woman in front of him, he likes the presence of primary sexual characteristics - breasts, vagina as well as the proportions of the pelvis, waist, shoulders, likes the smell of her body, the absence of vegetation on her face and limbs, femininity and softness of her movements. Here we must also add that with Stenolania, muscle GROWTH is of great importance for a man. It is the very fact of growth, its current process (in dynamics), and not the end result. Bloated biceps and calves, rolling and swelling under the skin of the veins and tendons. Among men, the cult of biceps is widespread - this is one of the most expressive muscles in the human body, by its size and shape you can clearly judge the strength of your partner, they really like to watch how the biceps increase, how it hardens, how the veins swell on it, touch it, check for strength. The end result of muscle growth is interesting in terms of comparison with what it was before, and how much the muscles have grown now, compare them with your muscles. All this clearly shows the man how much the woman has surpassed him in strength development and how excited she is. And this representation is directly proportional and analogous to the sexual arousal of a man.
This is a damn good read. The analysis is kinda beautiful even. Specially this part, this here is some post-nut clarity shit right here.
Also this excerpt
"This is what a PARTIAL role reversal means - only the behavior changes, not the essence. A woman remains a woman, and a man remains a man. It is important - who has more power, on whose side EXCELLENCE. This is a kind of competition, where the answer is obvious, but not natural. As a result, a conflict arises in the subconscious, which somehow turns into strong sexual arousal."
I've always thought that the juxtaposition of a pretty face with a jacked body was the arousing part, I thought it was because of the perversion of the widely accepted societal norm but this paragraph made it even clearer
I feel your anguish.
For many admitting to people around you that you are into women with muscles is a bit of a coming out, which shows that we aren’t necessarily in an environment where that is readily accepted.
I think for many guys a strong woman seems to diminish what it is to be male, as if muscles is what makes a guy. It is like the skinny guy with “female features” must be gay. 🙄
I am luckily enough to live in a society where I can say “ so what if I was gay?”, while also saying “but right now I’d prefer to find a girl whom is gym ready”.
Another few comeback are “me liking strong looking girls reduces our competition”, “are you intimidated by a strong woman?” or “so you like your girls on the plus size?”. Sometimes if you question their tastes they’ll realise that they are off base, because now they need to validate themselves too. Yes it is superficial, but a certain percentage of attraction is.
Since I go to the gym and also do CrossFit, friends now just seem to connect the dots and accept it.
Hey we can all agree on one thing...... that guys friend is a MASSIVE GIGANTIC SUPER COLASSAL GODZILLA KINK KONG SIZED dick and he needs to find a new friend 👍
Justbe yourself buddy and people will love you..... or get fake tits and everybody will love you...just kidding but srsly if your friend keeps saying he's not your friend
But here Wallagnation presents a very strange surprise, due to which, probably, many psychologists, sexologists and ordinary people consider this phenomenon to be hidden homosexuality. This surprise lies in the fact that the partners are PARTIALLY reversal of roles during the Wall. The reversal of roles occurs in consciousness and fantasies, but at the same time the partners are fully aware of what gender they belong to and feel it. It is this understanding that only spurs on, enhances their sexual attraction to each other (or attraction only unilaterally). For a man, it is desirable for a woman to have very developed muscles and be physically strong, even stronger than the man himself. For his part, a man (usually the majority, although there are exceptions) feels a kind of helplessness and weakness in front of a woman partner and deliberately becomes passive. He likes to succumb to her, surrender to her will, or, on the contrary, compete with her, but only with the aim of checking and making sure (although this is rather self-hypnosis) that she is stronger than him. He begins to behave like a woman during games before intercourse. However, he is fully aware that he is a man. Most often, a woman has a dominant position in such a relationship, she is a DOMINATOR. Her will is stronger than that of a man, and she suppresses his will with her own. Some physically strong women like it - to subjugate a man, although there are many exceptions, however, not related to Sthenolagnia. Such women specifically build muscle and engage in strength sports and seem to revel in demonstrating their strength and superiority over men in order to increase their sexuality. Apparently, this is precisely where the difference in approach to this fetish lies - a woman demonstrates her strength and muscles, getting excited, and a man contemplates the woman's muscles, experiencing arousal. Thus, we can talk about the ACTIVE and PASSIVE side of this fetish. That is, as in normal sexual practice, with Sthenolagnia, partners are divided into active and passive, with the only difference that the active and dominant partner here is a woman, and the passive partner is a man. Although under normal conditions we have all met men who love to show off their muscles. So this phenomenon is widespread in the normal sexual life of people. However, Emancipation greatly captured the minds of women in the 20th century, and contributed to the development of Sthenolagnia in many ways. The emergence of sports such as bodybuilding clearly demonstrates the active participation in female competition. A woman demonstrates her greatly enlarged muscles, exposing them to a man, BUT at the same time, a woman does not feel like a man (if she is subject to Sthenolagnia), she even likes to be a woman at this moment, but behaves like a "dominant male". There is a hypertrophy of the female sexual libido. Sexual energy is amplified many times over and overrides all conventions and foundations associated with femininity. This is what a PARTIAL role reversal means - only the behavior changes, not the essence. A woman remains a woman, and a man remains a man. It is important - who has more power, on whose side EXCELLENCE. This is a kind of competition, where the answer is obvious, but not natural. As a result, a conflict arises in the subconscious, which somehow turns into strong sexual arousal.
I think all we're really talking about here is what some people call a "beta-male."
I know some people want to get really philosophical about this, but the truth is that in the last 50-70 years, we've seen more and more men submit to women by giving up their true leadership roles in society and relationships.
I know that was the case for me as a teenager, because that's what attracted me to female bodybuilders initially - the idea of them having more power.
There were times people thought of me as gay, but I knew that was never the issue. The issue had to do with being attracted to a woman who was dominant. One way of validating that fact for me was seeing how that idea spilled over into other fetishes such as female cops, doctors, CEO's, etc., etc.
Deep down, women want and need a man to be a leader. They might not know this consciously, but it's biological in nature. There will always be people who will seem to be happy on the outside when going in contradiction to my last point, but it won't ever bring lasting satisfaction because that's not the way we're designed. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with women being stronger than men whether it be mental and/or physical...but at the end of the day, it's about being a man (or woman if you're female 😄).
Do what you want of course, but my suggestion is to simply fulfill the role you were intended to, by being a man or woman. Society has done a fairly good job of making that seem dull and boring, but I've found that's not the case at all.
It's not rocket science and I think you'll find lasting satisfaction by digging deep and discovering who you really are. 😎
People are born bisexual. You don't choose to be gay. Societal norms force you to be straight. Your "friend" is a cunt.
The SJW is strong with this one.
People are born bisexual. You don't choose to be gay. Societal norms force you to be straight. Your "friend" is a cunt.
LOL, that's the most concentrated nonsense I've read this week. If everybody is born bisexual and only forced to be straight by society, then that implies that being gay is also forced by society.
I think your friend is full of shit.
You know whether or not you are gay. It's pretty simple. If you aren't sexually attracted to the SAME sex, then you aren't gay. There is nothing wrong with being gay or bisexual, but you are the expert on your own sexuality, not your friend. It doesn't matter what he thinks.
I find the idea of sex with a man repulsive. I don't want anyone's dick anywhere near me. Pretty simple. I don't even like particularly masculine women. Muscles, yes. Strength, yes. I just reject the notion that those things are the exclusive domain of men. I care about my own fitness, why wouldn't I want a woman who does too rather than some atrophied, frail and helpless thing tee-heeing all over the place. No thanks.
But everyone likes what they like. There is nothing wrong with men who like masculine woman. There are guys who dig hairy armpits and gigantic clits. Whatever. More power to them. That's not for me, but it isn't "wrong". No one else gets to decide what is wrong (outside of pedophilia or anything that harms another person). What happens between consenting adults is no one else's business.
Never let anyone kink shame you. And any "friend" who continues to do that isn't a friend at all. Find better friends.
LOL, that's the most concentrated nonsense I've read this week. If everybody is born bisexual and only forced to be straight by society, then that implies that being gay is also forced by society.
@M76...This is an example of the nonsensical people we have to deal with. It's ridiculous to claim that we're all born bi-sexual....stupid AF!!!
"Insists"? Why is your friend obsessed with your sexuality? Is your friend possibly trying to find out if you would be open to sleeping with him? Don't answer, I don't care. But it is something for you to think about. Your gay friend wants you to "be gay" with him and no one else cares.
In the concern of consenting adults, I'm merely commenting to say that only idiots give a shit what sex another person is attracted to. Fuck, I can't believe idiots are still sucking up oxygen in the room by baiting the rest of us into responding to stupid, McCarthy-ist shit like this.
Yeah, I said it.
All people are bisexual
Women are biologically programmed to be led by men
whilst the premise of this thread is based on a hot take (since attraction towards muscular women obviously isn't enough to define any man as gay), i'm also sure there'll be more of the same to follow if the quoted statements are anything to go by.
your sexuality is a personal responsibility, whatever that may be. find better friends to spend your time with.
This is a damn good read. The analysis is kinda beautiful even. Specially this part, this here is some post-nut clarity shit right here.
Also this excerpt
"This is what a PARTIAL role reversal means - only the behavior changes, not the essence. A woman remains a woman, and a man remains a man. It is important - who has more power, on whose side EXCELLENCE. This is a kind of competition, where the answer is obvious, but not natural. As a result, a conflict arises in the subconscious, which somehow turns into strong sexual arousal."
I've always thought that the juxtaposition of a pretty face with a jacked body was the arousing part, I thought it was because of the perversion of the widely accepted societal norm but this paragraph made it even clearer
Personally I think we give these things too much power ill explain what I mean. imagine your in a interview your some famous celebrity (you all know who you are) and the interviewer ask you "what do you think about heterosexual marriage" you would think that's a ridiculous fucking question. what the hell is wrong with this guy? and you'd say ummm I thinks its fine is that what you mean I don't get the point of the question.the question would be a dumb question to say the least like asking what do you think about dogs fucking? Now if he were to say "what are your thoughts on biracial marriage? " you would think THIS MOTHER FUCKERS RACIST!!! And you would be right. Now think of this. why is it that its not weird for the interviewer to ask "what are your thoughts on gay marrige?" The question shouldn't be asked the answer should unanimously be Why? are you homophobic because that's a homopobic question what do you think about pedophiles? its the same level, of stupid if someone says somethings gay it should be the same as "thats thing looks like dick" as a bisexual man I'm joking but I call people faggot all the time and say things like a guy and a girl kissing and he's says your my everything and ill say well thats pretty fucking gay lol 😆 my point is we allow to many things to taunt us if we preach acceptance and tolerance we must be just that to the unaccepting and intolerant people if we get down to their level it does nothing but make us look weak like a kid being taunted by a younger sibling ok I'm done ranting lol 😆 hope no gets offended by what I said
I would also like to say there is nothing gay about liking strong women i still love breasts long hair and other womanly characteristics but i also like to force and the muscles of a woman in my mind she is better and special because she is stronger than me and this leads to me being very attracted.
Most guys are not into this because over 90% of the time the man will be way stronger so they are not wired to be into strong women since its very rare in nature i do not like masculine characteristics like a penis body hair sort hair or baldness so therefor i am not gay.
This thread kinda ballooned, I haven't read the whole thing. yarosson was losing me early on in their post, but as I got through it, it was a pretty good post, I enjoyed it thoroughly.
To the OP, don't fret it, not everyone likes every flavor of ice cream their friends do. And maybe it's a good thing. That means more mint for you. But for them to put you in a box because they aren't comfortable, it's silly. Good luck to you, I've run into it, I'm sure it's not all that uncommon.
OP has to put that forward himself, if he hasn't already. I think summoning that courage will be a big positive change for him long term, even if short term he loses a friend.