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God forbid there should be one corner of the Internet that isn't hyper-reactionary and constantly on guard for any molecule of anything which might offend anyone.
For me at least, it's got nothing to do with being offended. What I worry about is impressionable, horny young men (and women) seeing her, thinking "damn, she's hot, I wonder what her tattoo means", and falling down a rabbit hole. Not suggesting she's going to single-handedly radicalize a generation. But there is the potential for negative impact in that regard.
I'm actually dismayed and a little bit surprised that cancel culture has infiltrated even this place. I recommend just banning the person requesting the removal of someone else because they don' approve of their views. Regardless of the political leaning of the accusation.
Deplatforming literal Nazis isn't cancel culture.
Attempted genocide isn't a political leaning.
> > What would removing her accomplish? It's not like she would care. Any upstanding people here can simply recognize that she's a piece of shit, and move on.
Oh Tall1...if your doctor told you that you had a severe case of lung cancer, would you be cavalier about it and say "So? I also have bad taste in clothing. Who cares?" Fascism/nazism/rabid intolerance/hate etc are just like metastazing cancer...needs to be rooted out asap. But no, you insist upon being superficial and non-thinking.
It always amazes me that those who proclaim to be so radically anti-anything, employ the identical methods of censorship and declaring a person 'Verbotten", as the people they claim to be against!
Hypocrisy much?
The whole thing is just ridiculous. Users should have the ability to blacklist, but on their own account. That way, they can just hide it and not have to call for a witch hunt in threads and comments.
But, it is the cancel culture, now. Only it's extremely selective of what gets cancelled, and is based on feelings.
THIS, exactly! It is not enough for some people to choose what they want to see or enjoy for themselves: they have to be self-appointed 'arbiters' of what OTHER people can see or enjoy for themselves...............just like the very Dictators and Totalitarians they hypocritically claim to be against!
The Double-Standards are breathtaking, frankly.
@r16117:
"I object to the promotion of a literal Nazi slogan"
Nobody has "promoted a literal Nazi slogan", just like nobody has promoted any other thing visible in tattoos on this site. Please, keep your facts straight without embellishing or exaggerating anything. If the force of your argument is based entirely on the exaggeration then it really has no force on its own.
@HiHat:
Espousing and enabling genocide
But nothing like this has happened or is happening. The popularity of the tattoo, its visibility, people's awareness of its meaning and their willingness to accept its message would all need to be orders of magnitude greater to give any cause for concern.
endless numbers of FBB's not driven by hate
The only people literally and technically "driven by hate" in this particular issue are the people here trying to cancel her. You're basically just slandering her by this.
If anyone asked me, that kind of inflammatory rhetoric should get people banned, no matter how good or bad person or ideology it is targeting.
If you think yourself a decent human being, you will never ever call any other person (as a person) "driven by hate". But I doubt this is going to happen. Calling someone "driven by hate" is exactly the kind of dehumanizing rhetoric you should be most opposed to. In reality it is extremely improbable that any single person who has ever lived has been "driven by hate". In all probability not even getting the tattoo was "driven by hate".
Rhetoric like that is the Left's way of singling someone out for destruction.
@r16117:
"damn, she's hot, I wonder what her tattoo means", and falling down a rabbit hole.
As if no one had ever heard of who the Nazis were and what they're accused of doing. Is it really an incredible surprise that can turn everything upside down to realize that Germans and their allies were people too? And that they did a lot of other things than genocide and probably everything they did was for some other end than genocide for the sake of genocide.
Attempted genocide isn't a political leaning.
Genocide by tattoo. This sounds so over the top. I will write the motto down on paper and see how many people die. Then I will quickly burn the paper so that I will not get caught.
Statements like that are intended to shut down all discussion and all thinking. She may as well like dozens of good things about the Nazis or average Germans of that day that have nothing to do with genocide. Ever thought of that? Doesn't everyone see the problem here? The tattoo mentions honor and loyalty. Are those now the sole property of the Nazis? Tell me it isn't so. Then tell her it isn't so. What if she sees Communism as a bigger threat than Nazism and Nazis as the only people willing and able to take the threat seriously? Were their enemies really so much less genocidal?
I'm not sharing here my opinion on anything. Just saying that you assuming the worst about what she is thinking is proof of exactly nothing. But this is what most here have been doing. As if inflammatory rhetoric had the power to establish something as fact if repeated often enough. Tell me, where have we heard that before?
As if the logic was that since the tattoo is insane, we either are entitled to be 99 % as insane and still call ourselves the good guys. Or we are entitled to be even more insane because we're doing it for a good cause, whereas she supports people who did it for an evil cause.
By all means let's keep in mind chapters of history that we do not wish to see repeated. Nazism for sure. How about the Salem witch trials? Anyone for some more McCarthyism?
All we have here is a tattoo that only people in the know even recognise. Does anyone seriously believe that this is going to send people flocking to the neo-Nazi cause? Does nobody here know someone who got drunk, had a tattoo done, and went "oh sh*t" when they saw it in the morning?
Whatever actual pro-Nazi statements Vitez may or may not have made, they aren't here. This isn't Instagram. This isn't Facebook. I doubt that she even uploaded her own images. So the plan is to no-platform someone's assumed political views on a site that isn't a platform for political views.
You couldn't make it up.
The German Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer said, “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
I must agree with others that displaying photos of a woman with a Nazi tattoo crosses a line.
Holding far right (or left) positions is not evil, however some might think it misguided.
Espousing and enabling genocide based on people's race IS evil, pure and simple, and we have seen the cataclysm that ensued when people of conscience maintained their silence out of fear or ignorance.
I think the Vitez photos need to go. There are endless numbers of FBB's not driven by hate to admire here in her place...
Excellent post HiHat. I never noticed what her tattoo was, until people pointed it out. Personally while I find her physique very sexy, I deleted her from my favorites.
I suppose allowing horrific scribe to exist on this site, would be similar to allowing a woman to pose, in a KKK hood. She may care less if she were banned. She has other avenues to show off her muscles.
The whataboutism on display here is absurd. If she was espousing Mao Zedong or Stalin I think there would be similar concerns, but it's Nazism so we're talking about Nazism. Nobody is supporting communist dictatorships by refusing to support Nazis. The fact this is even a discussion reflects very poorly on the site management. I had to make an account just to say something. Gross.
Excellent post HiHat. I never noticed what her tattoo was, until people pointed it out. Personally while I find her physique very sexy, I deleted her from my favorites.
I suppose allowing horrific scribe to exist on this site, would be similar to allowing a woman to pose, in a KKK hood. She may care less if she were banned. She has other avenues to show off her muscles.
I'm pretty sure that a hot woman could be in full KKK gear, have a video in which she blatantly shows off her hatred for black people, and you'd still have people here going "Ok but she never explicitly said she supports the KKK so let's not jump to conclusions 🤔"
I will say that I left a comment on her IG asking specifically about the tattoo and it was deleted within the hour (i had left a previous comment, just a general one about her age because, holy shit, she's 23 and that is still up, so she, or whomever is running the site, is responsive and active). i suspected that she might be policing comments calling out the tattoo because I imagine most of the commentors in this thread have already made the attempt, but she's not stupid enough to hand out instablocks. a quiet deletion will probably be forgotten about.
for me, that is finally some other evidence than a small tattoo, it's behavior and an effort to turn attention away from it (aside from getting it removed). atm i'm leaning towards removal, and ive told this to the mod team, though im hoping i can get in touch with her to ask more questions. it could be that she doesn't want it removed, or on the flip side she has not had an opportunity to have it removed and is in prep. HOWEVER, in her public appearances (aka at least one podcast interview) she has made sure it was covered, because most of her IG posts are in a bikini top. more likely to see it up close like that if you're doing that podcast.
The whataboutism on display here is absurd. If she was espousing Mao Zedong or Stalin I think there would be similar concerns, but it's Nazism so we're talking about Nazism. Nobody is supporting communist dictatorships by refusing to support Nazis. The fact this is even a discussion reflects very poorly on the site management. I had to make an account just to say something. Gross.
Agreed. Like I'm not personally offended if the mods decide to keep her photos up on the site. It's their site, and while I may not agree with their moderation guidelines on this issue, they can still do what they want. (edit - sounds like the mods may take action)
What really trips me up is the way many users on this site (and in multiple related threads) continue to dance around the issue. Barbara Vitez has a Nazi tattoo. Whether she's a card carrying neo-Nazi ready to commit a crime or just a naive kid caught up with the wrong crowd, she's still proudly displaying an SS slogan. There's no denying it, no matter how blurry the photo is.
There's no need to get caught up in circular arguments or whataboutism. Commenters should just say it plainly. "Sure, she's a Nazi, but we don't care."
While I agree with you that it is crucial to ensure that any accusations are backed by evidence, I also believe that symbols have power.
Didn't remember to comment on this. Why do people think that symbols have power? Not because of anything that is essentially in them, but because people are told to consider them powerful and give them power. If you don't believe in a symbol then it has no power over you.
This is exactly the way people are ruled these days. They're given symbols to fear and symbols to believe in. You have been, more than anyone else here, giving power to that tattoo and slogan.
Like I said in my previous message, these concerns are only valid if enough people who are willing and able to act recognize the symbol, interpret it in a certain way and consider her a powerful influence in their lives. A young man must be into female bodybuilders or even her in particular and ten thousand times hornier than we've ever seen in order to become a neo-Nazi purely for her sake.
The whataboutism on display here is absurd.
Either it was whataboutism or a valid question. It can't be both.
If she was espousing Mao Zedong or Stalin I think there would be similar concerns
I very much doubt this. But the extreme left is not that much into bodybuilding, so this remains to be seen.
Nobody is supporting communist dictatorships by refusing to support Nazis.
Nobody made any such claim anywhere. If you're referring to what I said then I was suggesting that her reason for getting the tattoo was not a voluntary choice for pure evil against pure good but a familiar evil against a foreign evil. They way I've heard people rationalize their union memberships too. "They're crooks. But they're on our side."
she's still proudly displaying an SS slogan.
Except that she isn't:
HOWEVER, in her public appearances (aka at least one podcast interview) she has made sure it was covered, because most of her IG posts are in a bikini top.
This.
"Sure, she's a Nazi, but we don't care."
Except that it's not sure at all. Nobody still has the full story. Seems like the "Nazis" here are interested in evidence and rationality, whereas their opponents are constantly inventing facts, putting words into people's mouths, sentiments into people's minds and constantly and furiously reframing everything.
Also, nobody has stopped to define what is a Nazi to them. Then there's no guarantee that her idea of a Nazi has anything to do with your idea of what is the essence of being a Nazi.
continue to dance around the issue.
I haven't seen anyone dance around anything. Maybe they think the thing is a bit more complicated. But this is again another reframe, another underhanded personal attack. I see here half the people having a real discussion and the other half falsely accusing them for having a real discussion. Just because a person does not agree with you does not mean that he is in any way defective, morally or otherwise.
Several years ago I visited the Holocaust museum in Washington D.C., and I'm not exaggerating when I say it was one of the most sobering and emotional experiences I have had in my entire life. I consider myself a pretty well-read and educated person, and I felt like I knew a lot about World War II and the atrocities of the Holocaust. But to see it presented in such a personal and brutally uncensored way drove home how important it is that we never forget what happened and that we don't tolerate any support of mass murder and hatred.
Having a tattoo with an SS motto isn't just "bad behavior," and you don't get something like that on a whim or when you're drunk or whatever (you also don't get, say, a swastika when you're drunk). Not accepting someone who actively promotes Nazi views (and yes, that includes tattoos) isn't "cancel culture "(which is turning into an annoying buzzword). It simply has no place in modern society, and it should be actively shunned whenever it is seen. And no, saying "the tattoo is not attempted genocide" is not a valid argument at all. It is active support of what is probably the worst display of human rights atrocities in the history of civilization.
And honestly, I think that people who cry "cancel culture!" over things like that shows that they are speaking from a position of privilege where since they are not directly targeted or affected by said person's actions or advocacies, they don't see why they should be de-platformed. It shows a very clear lack of empathy towards those who are affected by that. And, if we are being completely honest, the people who are supporting Barbara are those who are only doing it because they think she is hot. Nothing else besides that matters, and if she was a fat woman or an otherwise unattractive woman, they would be apathetic at best.
And while yes, bodybuilding culture is majority right wing and many of the bodybuilders that we like are conservatives (I saw someone mention women like Katie Lee, Jodi Boam and Shannon Courtney,) they're not pushing and displaying Nazi propaganda. There is a big difference between women like that and women like Barbara, and I'm not seeing anyone saying that they should be removed from the site (and nor should they!) Same with someone like Jessica Piccoli. Yes, while she got arrested and is probably a crazy and narcissistic person, what she did is a far cry from having a hate motto tattooed on her body (and yes, when you have something like that on your body, you are actively promoting hate.) What she did is in no way comparable to Barbara, and I am tired of people using the "slippery slope" argument.
Except that it's not sure at all. Nobody still has the full story.
Look, I'm not going to get too bogged down in this. I understand you want to look at the full context before making a judgement. That's great and in most cases I'd agree with you. But this is a situation where we can make a sound judgement with the limited context we have already.
No one is getting a tattoo of an SS slogan (and there's no other way to explain it - this is a pretty obscure phrase that's unknown to most) unless they're deep in it. Two other explanations exist - she got the tattoo years ago and regrets it now (in that case, she'd be covering it up and working on getting it removed); or was given the tattoo against her will (extremely unlikely). Like there's no other explanation. Why do you keep pushing back on it?
Like there's no other explanation. Why do you keep pushing back on it?
Because they think she's hot.
That's it. There's no deeper meaning, no more complex nuance or thought process to it. It is because she is a female bodybuilder, they think female bodybuilders are hot, and as a result will defend her no matter what she does. She could have been caught punting puppies off of the Brooklyn Bridge and there would be guys still complimenting her or sliding into her DMs.
We really dont know what her idea is behind the tattoo. And as I read the comments people interpret it very diffirent.
But it raises a question, what do you allow and what not.
An indian girl with a Swastika on het arm? In her culture a Swastika is a 10.000 year old positive symbol which the Nazi's stole. A girl in gladiator clothes greating Ceasar? A girl with a big white pointy hat? A girl who shows agressive behavior on vids, A girl who's convicted off child abuse, a fbb who died, a thred on Asian women only, A girl with the tat of a cow on her leg, A Muslim or Christian, a girl with one leg, a communist, a girl with a m16, a soldier...?
There are so many things to be offended by, by a lot of diffirent people with different cultures and values in life. Im glad I dont have to fill Chainers shoes as I can or cant emagine the pb's he gets on the subject.
But i think its great that he discuses it.
Because they think she's hot.
Man I hope it's just that. I get the feeling that a lot of users on the site feel like we're lib pussies for taking this seriously. Like sure, cancel culture can be dumb and I'm largely okay with leaving politics off of a muscle fetish site. I just hoped we'd all agree that Nazis are bad. It shouldn't be a controversial thing.
Several years ago I visited the Holocaust museum in Washington D.C., and I'm not exaggerating when I say it was one of the most sobering and emotional experiences I have had in my entire life. I consider myself a pretty well-read and educated person, and I felt like I knew a lot about World War II and the atrocities of the Holocaust. But to see it presented in such a personal and brutally uncensored way drove home how important it is that we never forget what happened and that we don't tolerate any support of mass murder and hatred.
Thanks for bringing this up. I've had the exact same experience and if it doesn't rock a person to their core then nothing will. The room with the shoes, my god. My god. It's why the most disturbing image I've maybe ever seen in my life is of a young girl, maybe three years old, happily showing her friends a dandelion.
They're all sitting on the grass outside the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Many of the adults even unaware that this is their last hour, last minutes. Just children trying to pass the time, a young girl admiring the simple beauty of a flower, maybe trying to cheer up her friends.
It's why people tattooing nazi slogans on themselves and the disregard for it makes me, I don't know. I feel like I should be furious but it just makes me sad. I don't know how we got here that the things many of our grandfathers and great grandfather fought and died for are, by some, being forgotten? We can't forget the evil that this was. We can't. It deserves nothing but the strongest condemnation. This isn't "cancel culture," it's being a human being.
@HiHat:
The only people literally and technically "driven by hate" in this particular issue are the people here trying to cancel her. You're basically just slandering her by this.
I'm sorry, Zarkle, but I can't come up with another appropriate characterization of someone who would tattoo a known Nazi expression on her body unless for some reason the tattoo artist misled her as to the meaning and significance of the phrase.
Again, there's a giant difference between disagreeing with another viewpoint and condoning pure evil.
At the very least, the GWM powers-that-be could try to contact her to find out if she was aware of the implications of that tattoo and endorsed Nazi ideology. If so, out she goes. If not, I think it would be wise at least to air-brush the offending tattoo out of any picture where it appears on this site.
Because that all sounds pretty difficult and time-consuming, it would be easier just to remove her photos from the site. She could plead her case with GWM if she gives a crap whether her pictures appear here or not, which she probably doesn't...
I'm actually dismayed and a little bit surprised that cancel culture has infiltrated even this place. I recommend just banning the person requesting the removal of someone else because they don' approve of their views. Regardless of the political leaning of the accusation.