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Thanks for bringing this up. I've had the exact same experience and if it doesn't rock a person to their core then nothing will. The room with the shoes, my god. My god. It's why the most disturbing image I've maybe ever seen in my life is of a young girl, maybe three years old, happily showing her friends a dandelion.
They're all sitting on the grass outside the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Many of the adults even unaware that this is their last hour, last minutes. Just children trying to pass the time, a young girl admiring the simple beauty of a flower, maybe trying to cheer up her friends.
It's why people tattooing nazi slogans on themselves makes me, I don't know. I feel like I should be furious but it just makes me sad. I don't know how we got here that the things many of our grandfathers and great grandfather fought and died for are, by some, being forgotten? We can't forget the evil that this was. We can't. It deserves nothing but the strongest condemnation. This isn't "cancel culture," it's being a human being.
But sadly its also in humans nature to do these things. 26 miljon Russians died in the same war. The slaughter of the natives in America by the Europian settelers. Slavery, numerous cases of genocide all over the world. And why, because, Ego, we want what they have, its our right, Im right and youre not, because we can, but the most dangerous one, because we are (feel) superior in comparison to the other.
What hapens if im calling someone stupid, crazy, a Nazi, or what ever negative I can think of, I judge by my own values, feel better than the person in question, superior.
And offcoarse we should never forget, but a lot of things...
@r16117:
> "I object to the promotion of a literal Nazi slogan"
Nobody has "promoted a literal Nazi slogan", just like nobody has promoted any other thing visible in tattoos on this site. Please, keep your facts straight without embellishing or exaggerating anything. If the force of your argument is based entirely on the exaggeration then it really has no force on its own.
@HiHat:
> Espousing and enabling genocide
But nothing like this has happened or is happening. The popularity of the tattoo, its visibility, people's awareness of its meaning and their willingness to accept its message would all need to be orders of magnitude greater to give any cause for concern.
> endless numbers of FBB's not driven by hate
The only people literally and technically "driven by hate" in this particular issue are the people here trying to cancel her. You're basically just slandering her by this.
If anyone asked me, that kind of inflammatory rhetoric should get people banned, no matter how good or bad person or ideology it is targeting.
If you think yourself a decent human being, you will never ever call any other person (as a person) "driven by hate". But I doubt this is going to happen. Calling someone "driven by hate" is exactly the kind of dehumanizing rhetoric you should be most opposed to. In reality it is extremely improbable that any single person who has ever lived has been "driven by hate". In all probability not even getting the tattoo was "driven by hate".
Rhetoric like that is the Left's way of singling someone out for destruction.
@r16117:
> "damn, she's hot, I wonder what her tattoo means", and falling down a rabbit hole.
As if no one had ever heard of who the Nazis were and what they're accused of doing. Is it really an incredible surprise that can turn everything upside down to realize that Germans and their allies were people too? And that they did a lot of other things than genocide and probably everything they did was for some other end than genocide for the sake of genocide.
> Attempted genocide isn't a political leaning.
Genocide by tattoo. This sounds so over the top. I will write the motto down on paper and see how many people die. Then I will quickly burn the paper so that I will not get caught.
Statements like that are intended to shut down all discussion and all thinking. She may as well like dozens of good things about the Nazis or average Germans of that day that have nothing to do with genocide. Ever thought of that? Doesn't everyone see the problem here? The tattoo mentions honor and loyalty. Are those now the sole property of the Nazis? Tell me it isn't so. Then tell her it isn't so. What if she sees Communism as a bigger threat than Nazism and Nazis as the only people willing and able to take the threat seriously? Were their enemies really so much less genocidal?
I'm not sharing here my opinion on anything. Just saying that you assuming the worst about what she is thinking is proof of exactly nothing. But this is what most here have been doing. As if inflammatory rhetoric had the power to establish something as fact if repeated often enough. Tell me, where have we heard that before?
As if the logic was that since the tattoo is insane, we either are entitled to be 99 % as insane and still call ourselves the good guys. Or we are entitled to be even more insane because we're doing it for a good cause, whereas she supports people who did it for an evil cause.
If you're just going to wilfully misrepresent people's arguments, I'm not going to waste my time discussing this with you. If you genuinely think I meant (for example) that her tattoo would cause a genocide, then... well, let's be honest. You don't. Because you're not an idiot. Which brings me back to wilful misrepresentation.
Because they think she's hot.
I actually don't think she is hot. First because I'm losing interest in this as a fetish. Second because I did not really spend any time looking at her. I just wanted to see the tattoo once and then get back to these discussions.
I just hoped we'd all agree that Nazis are bad.
I think Nazis are just like hate, a very very very heavily charged symbol. I think none of this makes the slightest sense until someone can explain what he thinks Nazis or hate represent in reality. The same thing I've been doing with psychology stuff everyone knows where. So from my point of view I'm just calling out an endless stream of emotionally charged nonsense.
A thing I realized recently is that some people fetishize female bodybuilders because they're not really identifying as men. Not as women either, but live instead in a kind of borderline condition between female and male, but also child and adult. So this leads them to consider such things as strength, merit, virility, honor, courage and so on as somewhat foreign, scary, even dangerous. I am sure most of this disagreement is not motivated by what I am saying now, but at the same time Nazism also represents some of these things to some people. "Nazism is masculinity, all masculinity is toxic. Women only should have power and men should serve them. Women would reward men with sex and this would create a perfect existence for both."
The way I would approach this is to have a list of established facts that do not depend on anyone's interpretation of any heavily charged symbol. Then I would proceed to list the things everyone agrees on. I think we all agree that the tattoo is in bad taste. It seems obvious to me that she regrets it now. Therefore she obviously is not promoting the tattoo. It just happens to be there. At the same time I believe Nazism is a special case. Practically all other symbolism is fine with public opinion.
Well maybe there are some even more obscure phrases that could be interpreted as celebrating some atrocity committed against Aboriginal Australians or Native Americans. But there is a twofold point. On one hand I don't think Germans had much choice with Nazis, any more than Russians had with Communism. Both came to power through revolutions funded from abroad. But on the other hand Nazism as a symbol is associated in today's world with many ideas that would otherwise be perfectly good and valid and represent realism against Left's utopian tendencies and disingenuously naive ideas of human nature.
To put it short. I don't think the majority of them is genuinely concerned about the welfare of endangered people and minorities, but instead have a big axe to grind. They would be more rational and forthcoming and less emotional if it weren't so.
"Promoting hate" is such a vague and obscure expression. People are willing to believe in it as a concept and take it dead seriously because the view of society and humanity they believe in is also utterly made of similar symbols with very little grounding in reality. But I guess this is not the place to do anything about it.
I have nothing against removing any image that shows the tattoo. I'm happy to be rid of it because it's cheesy. Not because I'd think it promotes any evil deed. But only if the concern about a slippery slope turns out to be not valid. As far as I know, Russia was preparing for war against Eastern Europe and Germany totally independent of anything Germany ever did or didn't do, so I won't fault them for fighting a war that was going to happen anyway. Unless the whole ordeal was agreed upon between all involved parties, or at least the major ones, in which case SS and everyone else were just actors on stage. Or what's the big difference between SS in Eastern Europe and American marines in Vietnam? It probably just depends on who is telling the story.
It always amazes me that those who proclaim to be racist, sexist, homophobic, invoke freedom of speech that their idols never admitted when they used to rule.
Complete Non Sequitur! I'm NOT calling on anyone to be censored, nor have I proclaimed to be any of your projected Ad Hominem slurs!
Nor do you have the faintest idea who or what my 'idols' are.........again, all your own projection, kiddo!
Chainer: 80 years ago, the United States and its Allies fought a World War to defeat the horrific evil and inhumanity symbolized by the swastika. Millions of innocents were slaughtered for nothing more than being the wrong religion or race. Millions. Moreover, hundreds of thousands of soldiers from all over the world were maimed or killed in service to defeat the murderous Third Reich. There are tens of thousands of families in this country alone who bear the scars of losing a loved relative fighting the Nazi regime.
Everyone alive today knows the disgusting history of what the swastika represents. Everyone. Any person who willingly has that symbol tattooed on their body knows exactly what they are doing; that person didn't just look at the swastika and think "oh, what a cute emblem. I think I'll have that etched on my skin instead of that cool flower." When considering whether to ban photos posted on this site which display the swastika, it is wholely irrelevant whether any viewers need to provide proof of that person being a Nazi. At best, the person is incredibly ignorant and, at worst, the person is a racist and hater. A person who willingly tattoos the swastika on their skin shouldn't get, nor deserves, the benefit of the doubt. Period. Full Stop.
Chainer, I suspect you'd ban a photo of some woman flexing while wearing a KKK hood over her head. What the Swastika represents is even worse. I urge you to reconsider your position as there is too much leniency today towards obvious expressions of hate. Anything other than removal is nothing short of being an enabler of this despicable expression of racism and hatred.
It's pretty disturbing how some are going to bat for a literal Nazi. I think that there's some blissful ignorance that is in play here because if that tattoo said something in plain English like "White Power" or "Aryan Pride" we wouldn't be having this discussion, but since it's in German, people can choose to believe it's not related to the Hitler because not everything German is.
It always amazes me that those who proclaim to be racist, sexist, homophobic, invoke freedom of speech that their idols never admitted when they used to rule.
It always amazes me that there are people who are amazed by things that don't exist, nobody said and nobody believes in.
This is exactly the nonsense I am trying to get rid of. Not only belief in socially created symbols but also in socially created idols. Small minds discuss people and greater minds discuss events, but even greater minds discuss ideas. Nazism is not an idea, not a philosophy and not even a clearly defined ideology. I wouldn't be surprised if on closer examination it wasn't anything more than a bogeyman.
Also, I have never invoked freedom of speech and I recommend nobody else do that either. If you don't believe what you're about to say has even potential merit then it's better left unsaid. The way I have already defended the tattoo is by pointing out that to her it does not mean what it means to a liberal user of this site. Because I think the tattoo is good? No. But because their arguments are mostly based on the false assumption that the tattoo has the same meaning for everyone everywhere.
Again no sane person would proclaim themselves to be racist. Not because racism is such a big big evil, but because nobody has any clue what it means. It's again another of these ever-changing symbols with a life of its own. Same goes for sexism. And 90 % of what is called homophobia simply isn't by any definition. According to Sam Vaknin, homophobia is an example of a defense mechanism called reaction formation. Now 99 % of the time a person who thinks he is "calling out homophobia" has no way of knowing if this is the case or if there is a real, valid, honest disagreement or criticism.
The worst problem with these discussions are people who only know how to smear and insinuate. It would be so much easier if we could all simply assume that our opponent is always mentally ill, totally hypocritical and represents pure evil. So you have basically just mooned us and I wonder if you're proud of yourself now. But you probably think we deserved that?
I just don't understand how Chainer will shadow ban certain individuals for photo manipulation (Eun Hee Kang), but will not do the same for individuals with a reported criminal record/ bad behavior( Jessica Picoli, Stephanie Flesher). Certain individuals are blacklisted on this site anyways.
Also, I don't know why there is a dislike to this certain instagram influencer the calls people out on their actions. All he does is point out when a fitness influencer is being dishonest and disingenuous. He doesn't profit of his material.
Banning models due to political opinions they may hold is dumb and anybody in support of removing Barbara is being a hypocrite I am afraid. How? see below:
Are any of you who want Barbara removed vegan?
If you eat factory-farmed meat, then you are guilty of forcing millions of beautiful innocent souls into gas chambers to be killed and have their bodies harvested, packaged, and delivered to your local grocery store. If you eat meat obtained in this manner, how are you any more callous than the Nazi Reich? How are factory farms different from concentration camps? If the Nazis were cannibals and ate their Jewish prisoners after processing them, and if they called their death camps something less frightening such as factory farms, would their murder spree have been justified?
A Holocaust happens every minute of every day right behind your backyard, but you don't care now do you? You see where your "fascism bad, ban anything that conflicts with my political opinions" logic leads to? Should all the women on this site be banned because they eat meat and hence contribute to the mass slaughter of billions of lives? Or do only humans matter to you? and if you are willing to claim superiority over nonhumans, an arbitrary standard, who the hell are you to demonize other humans who only care about white humans?
This is a privately-owned and operated website, if models get banned because we disagree with their politics, this site will soon plunge into oblivion because almost all of these girls eat meat. Should Chainer be forced to appease the vegans? If you say no, why should he be forced to appease the antifascists?
Banning models due to political opinions they may hold is stupid and anybody in support of removing Barbara is an idiot hypocrite. How? see below:
Are any of you who want Barbara removed vegan?
If you eat factory-farmed meat, then you are guilty of forcing millions of beautiful innocent souls into gas chambers to be killed and have their bodies harvested, packaged, and delivered to your local grocery store. If you eat meat obtained in this manner, how are you any more callous than the Nazi Reich? How are factory farms different from concentration camps? If the Nazis were cannibals and ate their Jewish prisoners after processing them, and if they called their death camps something less frightening such as factory farms, would their murder spree have been justified?
A Holocaust happens every minute of every day right behind your backyard, but you don't care now do you? You see where your "fascism bad, ban anything that conflicts with my political opinions" logic leads to? Should all the women on this site be banned because they eat meat and hence contribute to the mass slaughter of billions of lives? Or do only humans matter to you? and if you are willing to claim superiority over nonhumans, an arbitrary standard, who the hell are you to demonize other humans who only care about white humans?
This is a privately-owned and operated website, if models get banned because we disagree with their politics, this site will soon plunge into oblivion because trust me, almost all of these girls eat meat.
Except eating meat is not a political view. It is an environmental view which is its own separate issue. It is clear that they main discussion is about the tattoo, but there are other issues within the original post that needs to be addressed. This really isn't much of a discussion because the original poster hasn't responded on anything. They are just observing and waiting to ban people that they themselves disagree with(read original post).¯_(ツ)_/¯
I just don't understand
That must be by choice, so nobody can really help you.
But for the record, this site is about photos of real bodies. This is why Eun Hee Kang is a problem. A person's looks have nothing to do with their criminal record or bad behavior. People will simply like them less if they see it as a problem. Certain individuals are blacklisted per their own request.
There is a dislike to this certain Instagram influencer because mob justice has a tendency to backfire sometimes. Nothing more complicated than that. Nothing to do with profit.
On the other hand what I do understand is that things often have both upsides and downsides. This is not the same as being in a gray area, which would mean that the validity, suitability or goodness of a thing is somehow unclear or difficult to know. So what a mature person usually does is that he lists all the upsides and downsides and then, after weighing them carefully, makes a decision.
What people with borderline tendencies would prefer to do is to focus on one major detail and then, based on it, proclaim the thing all bad or all good. "I know this one good thing about him, therefore he is all good." This is only part of the problem, because the next thing you hear is "so you know one bad thing about him, so are you saying he must then be all bad?"
I'm not saying this is what you were doing. But I hope you spot the resemblance. It does not work like "feels good, don't ban" and "feels bad, ban".
I haven't seen anyone seriously and unironically say "Gee, Nazi tattoos are great, her having one is great, Nazis did nothing wrong!" I have seen a lot of people, myself included, not want her images removed, but that's not a "far-right sentiment", and let's just say that calling it that doesn't exactly alleviate my slippery slope concerns.
Yup. Nothing but pearl clutching and whining, some people just want to control every space they're in by complaining.
It's pretty disturbing how some are going to bat for a literal Nazi. I think that there's some blissful ignorance that is in play here because if that tattoo said something in plain English like "White Power" or "Aryan Pride" we wouldn't be having this discussion, but since it's in German, people can choose to believe it's not related to the Hitler because not everything German is.
Just to be clear, a "literal Nazi" would be a card-carrying member of the German National Socialist Party, which has NOT existed since 1945!
Nor does it is any way logically follow that anyone with a tattoo of ANYTHING should be censored from a site such as this for what are their IMAGINED or imputed political views...........This is Orwellian "Thought Crime" at its' most naked.
An individual has the RIGHT to do what they like to their body, no matter how distasteful or offensive you might find it............You don't like it, don't watch or follow them, but you have ZERO right to dictate to others what they should or should not like too. That really is Fascist, in its' proper sense!
One of my takeaways (having not heard of this phrase before) is that the tattoo/phrase is more obviously nazi linked than I had thought. I was naively holding out hope that surely there was a better explanation.
On the other hand, this means that every time that tattoo is visible, it is an embarrassment to her and her trashiness is exposed to the world.
I am going to keep this thread locked because people have had time to say what they want, and at this point it is going in circles and no one is convincing anyone else of anything.
For goodness sake, why would anybody care? It's not that this site exists to celebrate those women's personalities. Probably more of them than you'd care to think have shitty world views and questionable moral fibre. This site is only here for their bodies. It's right there in the name of the site. To be honest, I feel more guilty with this objectification of women, rather than the fact that they might have nasty views.