Managers and intimacy in the female muscle world

Assume you're a "fan" if you're reading this. But let's say you're more than just a casual fan. You're into the thing - whatever that means - and are actively pursuing dating relationships with a certain type of woma: a woman who trains hard, keeps a close eye on her nutrition, and is very keen about her personal appearance reflecting her personal fitness values and is proud of the visible muscle she has developed over the years.

But it's more than that. Not only do you want to date Suzie Muscles, but you want to actively manage her career as well. For the sake of discussion, let's assume she's into both dating you and having you as her manager. She's fully capable of speaking for and representing herself, but would rather have someone else out front so that she can focus on the less-business-y side of things.

1) Could you do it? Do you agree to do it?

2) How do you do it? What are the pro tips you'd share with others looking to learn from your example?

I don't think i have the knowledge to be a good trainer. i only know basic things. like eating food with a lot of proteins and zinc.

I guess if I grew a full beard and made it look like a pack of uncooked ramen noodles hanging from my chin, I'd appear more trustworthy to aspiring FBB's.

His beard reminds me of jack murphy look him up its very funny.

His beard reminds me of jack murphy look him up its very funny.

Yeah I know who he is (unfortunately).

Basically Jack is someone who pretends to be an alpha male while simultaneously exuding beta male vibes. I believe you're correct in comparing their beards since they both seem to exhibit similar behavior patterns (and also seem to live their lives through their respective beards, i.e. their beards give them their identity).

Here's an example of a woman who likely had no self esteem and latched onto the first guy that gave her attention.

What surprisingly deep conclusions from the photo.

Here's an example of a woman who likely had no self esteem and latched onto the first guy that gave her attention.

Whoa wait, what?! That is SO not the vibe I was going for here, man.

OR...are you saying that your "success" in dating - and being a manager(!!) - is incumbent upon your targeting of women with a level of self-valuation that might lead them to be totally won over simply because you gave her/them a lot of attention?

If so, I do agree that we should seek out compatible partners, but for the purposes of this conversation, I'd rather not condescend towards or take unnecessary shots at the women as we talk amongst ourselves here. NOTE: It's not that I'm trying to police your voice. I just want the conversation to progress in an informative manner.

What exactly do you think the "business" side of bodybuilding is? The vast majority of women who make anything approaching decent money from bodybuilding do it through thinly veiled prostitution. You'd have to be a cuckold to want to manage that. There are sponsorships, but that's something you ask a lawyer friend to give a once over, not something you need a manager for. It's a hobby for most, not a career.

Wanting to "manage" a bodybuilder screams "I want to date a bodybuilder but they don't want to date me." Pro tips? Go to the gym and maybe you'll attract a muscular woman without being weird.

I get the impression that her husband. The dude with the beard is some sort of super schmoe based on the interviews I've seen with them. I think she's a phenomenal bodybuilder but it seems like she's an experiment to him. I mean does that guy even lift?

Not sure. I don't know him, but the question posed isn't about "Chemical Pink"-esque maneuvers. But more importantly, the question asks about you and your thoughts, not anyone else's.

What exactly do you think the "business" side of bodybuilding is? The vast majority of women who make anything approaching decent money from bodybuilding do it through thinly veiled prostitution. You'd have to be a cuckold to want to manage that. There are sponsorships, but that's something you ask a lawyer friend to give a once over, not something you need a manager for. It's a hobby for most, not a career.

Wanting to "manage" a bodybuilder screams "I want to date a bodybuilder but they don't want to date me." Pro tips? Go to the gym and maybe you'll attract a muscular woman without being weird.\

I'm not your therapist, but yes, your response is definitely screaming a few things. 😂

You can define that "business" within the context of your hypothetical relationship. It will mean different things to different people. Maybe there are sponsorships to pursue, maybe there are sponsorship obligations to meet. Maybe there are seminars to schedule, with out-of-town logistics to plan. Maybe there are "guest posing" appearances. Maybe she's set a goal to judge 4 competitions this year. Maybe there is an online coaching business that requires 15-20 hours a week of administrative work - beyond the coaching itself - from marketing to scheduling to bookkeeping, etc. Maybe there is an OnlyFans account to produce content for, with DMs to answer. This list is hardly exhaustive.

But you led with "thinly veiled prostitution" for the - your words - "vast majority" earning decent money in bodybuilding. In the real world that exists outside your computer, I bet very few would agree with your assertion that pimping powder = "prostitution" of any kind. It is a curious inclusion by you, but again, I'm not your therapist. The work you're doing for yourself only needs to make sense to you.

As an aside, have you ever paid to enforce a contract against a company that's on its way out of business?

I guess if I grew a full beard and made it look like a pack of uncooked ramen noodles hanging from my chin, I'd appear more trustworthy to aspiring FBB's.

Absolutely! They would be hanging all over you.

Don’t forget the face tattoo he’s sporting too!

I'm not your therapist, but yes, your response is definitely screaming a few things. 😂

You can define that "business" within the context of your hypothetical relationship. It will mean different things to different people. Maybe there are sponsorships to pursue, maybe there are sponsorship obligations to meet. Maybe there are seminars to schedule, with out-of-town logistics to plan. Maybe there are "guest posing" appearances. Maybe she's set a goal to judge 4 competitions this year. Maybe there is an online coaching business that requires 15-20 hours a week of administrative work - beyond the coaching itself - from marketing to scheduling to bookkeeping, etc. Maybe there is an OnlyFans account to produce content for, with DMs to answer. This list is hardly exhaustive.

But you led with "thinly veiled prostitution" for the - your words - "vast majority" earning decent money in bodybuilding. In the real world that exists outside your computer, I bet very few would agree with your assertion that pimping powder = "prostitution" of any kind. It is a curious inclusion by you, but again, I'm not your therapist. The work you're doing for yourself only needs to make sense to you.

As an aside, have you ever paid to enforce a contract against a company that's on its way out of business?

What you've defined doesn't sound anything like a manager. Managers in the the world of sports and entertainment don't do low tier logistical work like that, their primary job is to facilitate relationships and opportunities for their client and to advise them in terms of how to maximize their career. In exchange they take a percentage of earnings (eg. ~5-10 for athletes, ~10-15 for actors, etc). That's problem number one with what you propose - there just isn't money in bodybuilding for the vast majority of women.

Sure, every now and then you get someone like Dana Linn Bailey, who was able to parlay her physique into a profitable business or Brooke Ence, who was able to gain some degree of mainstream notoriety, but I'll say it again since you're slow - the overwhelming majority of women who are able to support themselves through bodybuilding as a career are prostitutes. It's why so many of the girls on this site spend so much time in Dubai. It's what the people who make really good money from session work do. I never claimed that hawking supplements was tantamount to prostitution, I'm saying they're literally prostitutes. Did you actually think that most women in the fitness world make good money from product sponsorships? That's hilarious.

Guys, guys...you're having the wrong kind of fun. My man's catching strays and all he did here was appear in a "musclegirls at dinner" pic. ☠️

OK OK, I'll play.

I don't know the name of the gentleman who's been targeted above, but anecdotally, the crowd reports that Anastasia does not speak English and he is her translator and spokesman.

Why does that matter? Because in this business, you don't really earn much if no one knows who you are. For decades, there were a bunch of amazing European FBBs that fans in the U.S. rarely ever got to see, if at all. A good manager adds value if they're doing the kind of marketing and promotion that keeps a given musclegirl as a top selection in the prospective consumers' minds.

What exactly do you think the "business" side of bodybuilding is? The vast majority of women who make anything approaching decent money from bodybuilding do it through thinly veiled prostitution. You'd have to be a cuckold to want to manage that. There are sponsorships, but that's something you ask a lawyer friend to give a once over, not something you need a manager for. It's a hobby for most, not a career.

Wanting to "manage" a bodybuilder screams "I want to date a bodybuilder but they don't want to date me." Pro tips? Go to the gym and maybe you'll attract a muscular woman without being weird.

Ummm a man who manages a woman’s sex work isn’t a cuckold. It’s called a “pimp.” Turns out that this is a pretty widespread and common profession.

Plenty of awful BF’s out there are more than happy to profit off of their women turning tricks

Ummm a man who manages a woman’s sex work isn’t a cuckold. It’s called a “pimp.” Turns out that this is a pretty widespread and common profession.

Plenty of awful BF’s out there are more than happy to profit off of their women turning tricks

It's both. Pimps generally don't mix business with pleasure, but if they do, they're by definition cuckolds.

That's just arguing semantics though, it doesn't make anything I said less true.

It's both. Pimps generally don't mix business with pleasure, but if they do, they're by definition cuckolds.

That's just arguing semantics though, it doesn't make anything I said less true.

Ah I gotta disagree. Pimps very much mix business and pleasure. Exerting emotional control over their girls is a key part of the dynamic. It’s way more than a cold business relationship

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/02/13/how-t...

I don’t mean to equate this relationship to an FBB and her controlling boyfriend… but you can bet that they’re on the same spectrum. Female bodybuilders can earn quite a lot by doing sex work, and you can bet that some guys would be more than happy to just sit back and collect some of that. Some do it as partners and managers (Texasthighs on OF comes to mind), but lots will have a far less equal and more toxic relationship.

Ah I gotta disagree. Pimps very much mix business and pleasure. Exerting emotional control over their girls is a key part of the dynamic. It’s way more than a cold business relationship

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/02/13/how-t...

I don’t mean to equate this relationship to an FBB and her controlling boyfriend… but you can bet that they’re on the same spectrum. Female bodybuilders can earn quite a lot by doing sex work, and you can bet that some guys would be more than happy to just sit back and collect some of that. Some do it as partners and managers (Texasthighs on OF comes to mind), but lots will have a far less equal and more toxic relationship.

First of all, that link made for an interesting read but I still think we're mostly arguing semantics.

Of the three pimps interviewed, one of them expressed sentiment about feeling like a family whereas the other two had an aromantic, predatory attitude toward the women they pimped. Using sex to "get in her head" is different from sex in a normal relationship. Anecdotally, the people that I've met in this particular line of work tend to stray toward the side of not giving a fuck about the women beyond what they're worth as assets. That doesn't mean they don't fuck them, but they're not falling in love. Those kinds of people are in an entirely different world to the guys who get a cut out of their girlfriend fucking clients. I don't really consider the latter to be pimps, even though by definition I suppose they are. They're just shitty boyfriends and it's a coin flip as to whether they're manipulating their girls for profit or the girls won't stay loyal to them and they're just trying to save face and get something out of it.

What exactly do you think the "business" side of bodybuilding is? The vast majority of women who make anything approaching decent money from bodybuilding do it through thinly veiled prostitution. You'd have to be a cuckold to want to manage that. There are sponsorships, but that's something you ask a lawyer friend to give a once over, not something you need a manager for. It's a hobby for most, not a career.

Wanting to "manage" a bodybuilder screams "I want to date a bodybuilder but they don't want to date me." Pro tips? Go to the gym and maybe you'll attract a muscular woman without being weird.

Okay, well here's the thing... I know quite a lot of female fitness professionals and I attend the Olympia and the Arnold every year. And these are the dynamics that I see.

1) No athlete can make a living straight up from female bodybuilding alone. Some men can, but even that's pretty rare.

2) However, I'd say the vast majority simply have careers outside of it. You can see that lots of them are nurses or therapists or firefighters or office workers or whatever. Some have careers in fitness... like coaching, personal training, or owning their own gym or fitness studio.

3) For the latter, being a bodybuilder is a major credibility point. So saying that anyone earning money from bodybuilding is a thinly veiled prostitute is incorrect at best and slanderous at worst.

4) There's a spectrum of sex work services out there. Some girls actually are prostitutes in the true sense of the word. Some of them do silly wrestling videos. Some have fairly PG-rated onlyfans sites. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, and a male partner is not a cuckold by definition because his GF or wife engages in this with his permission. Is the wife of an actress a "cuckold" if she does a sex scene on film? Is the boyfriend of a stripper a "cuckold" if that's how she earns a living? It's very possible for a confident man to be in a relationship where his partner is a sex worker within agreed upon boundaries. It's incredibly common.

5) If you watch "Killer Sally" on Netflix, you can see the other pimp dynamic where a controlling boyfriend or husband profits off of his woman's sex work and treats her like garbage. Hell, you could just read about Andrew Tate to see this dynamic. That guy made a ton of money off of actively managing cam girls and maintaining relationships with them. I could call that POS a lot of things, but I wouldn't call Andrew Tate a "cuckold."

I guess if I grew a full beard and made it look like a pack of uncooked ramen noodles hanging from my chin, I'd appear more trustworthy to aspiring FBB's.

You gotta have the muscles to back the beard up though, otherwise you just look like a dork from IT. Beards are like bald heads and fedoras: only gigachads can actually rock them well.

Okay, well here's the thing... I know quite a lot of female fitness professionals and I attend the Olympia and the Arnold every year. And these are the dynamics that I see.

1) No athlete can make a living straight up from female bodybuilding alone. Some men can, but even that's pretty rare.

2) However, I'd say the vast majority simply have careers outside of it. You can see that lots of them are nurses or therapists or firefighters or office workers or whatever. Some have careers in fitness... like coaching, personal training, or owning their own gym or fitness studio.

3) For the latter, being a bodybuilder is a major credibility point. So saying that anyone earning money from bodybuilding is a thinly veiled prostitute is incorrect at best and slanderous at worst.

4) There's a spectrum of sex work services out there. Some girls actually are prostitutes in the true sense of the word. Some of them do silly wrestling videos. Some have fairly PG-rated onlyfans sites. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, and a male partner is not a cuckold by definition because his GF or wife engages in this with his permission. Is the wife of an actress a "cuckold" if she does a sex scene on film? Is the boyfriend of a stripper a "cuckold" if that's how she earns a living? It's very possible for a confident man to be in a relationship where his partner is a sex worker within agreed upon boundaries. It's incredibly common.

5) If you watch "Killer Sally" on Netflix, you can see the other pimp dynamic where a controlling boyfriend or husband profits off of his woman's sex work and treats her like garbage. Hell, you could just read about Andrew Tate to see this dynamic. That guy made a ton of money off of actively managing cam girls and maintaining relationships with them. I could call that POS a lot of things, but I wouldn't call Andrew Tate a "cuckold."

I'm just going to clarify a few things and then we'll have to agree to disagree.

1) Agreed.

2) Agreed, and I'm obviously not talking about anybody whose primary source of income is from an actual career or anybody whose partner earns money and subsidizes their bodybuilding.

3) Not incorrect, not slander nor libel (fyi slander is oral defamation, libel is written), just an uncomfortable fact you don't want to accept, although we might disagree about what constitutes making "good money" because most personal trainers wouldn't meet that threshold either.

4) These are all really bad analogies. Sex scenes in movies are not real sex, the men wear penis wigs, there's no penetration, there are intimacy councilors and dozens of crew, etc. If a stripper is fucking clients, then yes, the boyfriend's a cuckold. If your wife is unfaithful, you're a cuckold. It's genuinely that simple.

5) Andrew Tate is a sexual predator and a human trafficker, he's psychologically manipulating vulnerable women to sell them. He's not dating them. I'm uncomfortable with the way that you're blurring the lines between a coercive relationship and a normal romantic one.

Gonna bow out now because I've lost interest in this discussion.