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Update regarding images of trans women

Chainer
Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

The changes:

Explanation:

We've had no policy regarding trans women in the past. We would typically allow posts on the main site, provided that they passed a certain femininity requirement (which, given that the site has lots of pictures of large FBBs, is not terribly stringent).

However, it turns out that a lot of users REALLY don't want to see images of trans women. It would inevitably happen that users would discover that a certain woman is trans, and then we would receive a flood of image reports; rinse and repeat every time a new image of the person was posted. The comments under the images would also devolve into a shitshow. Sometimes we didn't want to deal with this and would delete the images, or even ban images of the women in question altogether. I didn't post any policy about this because there wasn't a good alternative.

Now that the forum is more active and you don't need a separate account anymore, there's is a good alternative, which is to separate posts of trans women into its own subforum. People who are interested post/browse there, whereas for everyone else, a forum section is easy to ignore. This is similar to the Fantasy section for artwork and morphs.

The new board is 18+, so nudity is allowed and it does not show up for unregistered users, nor on the front page of GWM. Up until now posts of trans women have been largely made in just one thread (previously in the general NSFW section), however now that there is a whole board for this, feel free to spread out.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

That's a good alternative for those who want to see them, without forcing everyone to see them on the main site and also without removing them completely from the site.

Eva The Supergirl is a trans woman too, so maybe her images could be moved to the forum

https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/?name=...

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

I really don’t understand why some users have a Chernobyl style meltdown at merely glancing at a trans woman. Why not just simply move on to another image?

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

I would definitely prefer to know if a model is trans.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

I really don’t understand why some users have a Chernobyl style meltdown at merely glancing at a trans woman. Why not just simply move on to another image?

Agree... It does not bother me, i don't pay attention nor i am upset by it...

[deleted]
Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Chainer,

It's your site and bless you for managing it, a job I couldn't imagine taking on. I feel your intent was noble, but my $0.02:

I feel the "separate forum" line should be drawn on content of the picture, not on if the model is trans.

There is an objective difference between muscle pics of a trans woman (eva.the.supergirl flexing in the gym) and nude pics focusing on genitalia (that lady posing with the Listerine bottle). Segregating all trans women pics, regardless of content, feels:

  • At best like a knee-jerk reaction - writing in to cancel a TV show you personally don't like, when you could just change the channel (see Gatsby's post above mine).
  • At worst a case of "othering", or implying that they shouldn't even be seen with the quote-unquote "real" women.

I see the wisdom in separating truly adult/NSFW^ content, but concentrating all and only trans women content into one little camp really seems to work against the plight to be seen simply as women.

^I also find it hilarious that we still use "NSFW" only for 18+ content, as if your boss would be totally cool with you surfing for barely clothed models sticking out their asses.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Chainer,

It's your site and bless you for managing it, a job I couldn't imagine taking on. I feel your intent was noble, but my $0.02:

I feel the "separate forum" line should be drawn on content of the picture, not on if the model is trans.

There is an objective difference between muscle pics of a trans woman (eva.the.supergirl flexing in the gym) and nude pics focusing on genitalia (that lady posing with the Listerine bottle). Segregating all trans women pics, regardless of content, feels:

  • At best like a knee-jerk reaction - writing in to cancel a TV show you personally don't like, when you could just change the channel (see Gatsby's post above mine).
  • At worst a case of "othering", or implying that they shouldn't even be seen with the quote-unquote "real" women.

I see the wisdom in separating truly adult/NSFW^ content, but concentrating all and only trans women content into one little camp really seems to work against the plight to be seen simply as women.

^I also find it hilarious that we still use "NSFW" only for 18+ content, as if your boss would be totally cool with you surfing for barely clothed models sticking out their asses.

Yeah, I agree. I've been having this discussion for a long time though, I know the intentions are good but it creates a weird scenario where we're just catering to these people who are insecure with their sexuality and report images because... it's not their preference I guess. Nobody is going to like every image on this site, should still be consideration given for people that do want to see those images though.

There's a definite difference between a trans woman posing/showing off their muscle in a way that we see all the time on this site from cis women, and a nude thread lol.

End of the day it is their site though.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

It’s a good idea that way the minority of users that want to see trans women( of which there’s nothing wrong with) get what they want and the majority of users get what they want. It’s win/win happy medium

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Chainer,

It's your site and bless you for managing it, a job I couldn't imagine taking on. I feel your intent was noble, but my $0.02:

I feel the "separate forum" line should be drawn on content of the picture, not on if the model is trans.

There is an objective difference between muscle pics of a trans woman (eva.the.supergirl flexing in the gym) and nude pics focusing on genitalia (that lady posing with the Listerine bottle). Segregating all trans women pics, regardless of content, feels:

  • At best like a knee-jerk reaction - writing in to cancel a TV show you personally don't like, when you could just change the channel (see Gatsby's post above mine).
  • At worst a case of "othering", or implying that they shouldn't even be seen with the quote-unquote "real" women.

I see the wisdom in separating truly adult/NSFW^ content, but concentrating all and only trans women content into one little camp really seems to work against the plight to be seen simply as women.

^I also find it hilarious that we still use "NSFW" only for 18+ content, as if your boss would be totally cool with you surfing for barely clothed models sticking out their asses.

co-signing

Mar 18, 2021 - edited Mar 18, 2021 - permalink
  • At best like a knee-jerk reaction - writing in to cancel a TV show you personally don't like, when you could just change the channel (see Gatsby's post above mine).
  • At worst a case of "othering", or implying that they shouldn't even be seen with the quote-unquote "real" women.

I once had to 'write in'- seems the gentleman and ladies aren't doing it much these days-, it concerned a law enforcement show at about 3pm. They showed real dead people.

Most people would probably say ah well, you see dead people on shows every day, but when I saw it I got a cold chill. There is something visceral about seeing a real dead person for the first time, you get a tingling feeling and just know that something is not the same, no actor or plastic model can do the same.

I experienced this age 32 and it still left me cold. My point is that not everyone reacts the same as you. I am not saying that the pictures are in ANY way comparable to that situation but I do have to point out that not everyone reacts the same and shaming them for it, not being 'comfortable with their sexuality', not only goes against the morals of your own argument but makes the topic uncomfortable to assess without emotion. In my mind he did change the channel...he did not write in.

Same can be said for the second point. To say that people put in a separate section would feel bad AND IT MATTERS but people who object to it don't...I think you get the point.

BTW, the reply I got was 'the nanny should hold the remote'.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Thanks.

I don't like seeing photos of trans, happy with the decision.

Guess some people will disagree and that's fine - personally for me it was a win.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

What about passable ones? Like I can clearly see that a person is trans but it seems like most people have no idea. Some people think it's just steroids but if one pays attention it's clearly not the case.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Trans women are women, who cares if they have a ding dong? It's not even shown in the images here.

Bit disappointing that we all can't just respect who they are appreciate the hard work they put in like we do for everyone else posted here.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

My point is that not everyone reacts the same as you. I am not saying that the pictures are in ANY way comparable to that situation but I do have to point out that not everyone reacts the same and shaming them for it, not being 'comfortable with their sexuality', not only goes against the morals of your own argument but makes the topic uncomfortable to assess without emotion. In my mind he did change the channel...he did not write in.

Same can be said for the second point. To say that people put in a separate section would feel bad AND IT MATTERS but people who object to it don't...I think you get the point.

BTW, the reply I got was 'the nanny should hold the remote'.

I mean ultimately that's what it boils down to. Why else would someone report it? I don't like certain images that get posted here but instead of reporting them I can choose to ignore them. That's on the person to figure out themselves, not the mods.

The difference between people who want to see them compared to people who do is that there's an easy workaround for the crowd that doesn't want to see them. Go to the next pic, there are only a million others. When someone complains, the pictures get deleted. Not exactly fair or equal, is it?

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

The difference between people who want to see them compared to people who do is that there's an easy workaround for the crowd that doesn't want to see them. Go to the next pic, there are only a million others. When someone complains, the pictures get deleted. Not exactly fair or equal, is it?

there's also the easy workaround of having a separate section for the minority of people on this site who want to see that

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......

Others think differently. What is the issue of simply ignoring trans posts instead of reporting them and trying to get them taken down? If someone shares your point of view, they can simply not click on those pictures. If someone has the opposite point of view, these pictures are taken down entirely. There's a disconnect there.

Someone like Paige DuMars is bordering very close to masculinity in numerous aspects. If there was a female to male trans bodybuilder like this, do you think this is appropriate for the site?

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190605...

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

there's also the easy workaround of having a separate section for the minority of people on this site who want to see that

What minority? How are you deciding what people want to see or not. This trans bodybuilder for example does very well when she's posted:

https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/?name=...

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink
Deleted by pong
Mar 18, 2021 - edited Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

What minority? How are you deciding what people want to see or not. This trans bodybuilder for example does very well when she's posted:

its a compromise not everyone shares your tastes and now you'll have a place where you can see it and talk about it without people ridiculing and leaving mean comments, photos getting deleted etc. get off your high horse I'm not deciding anything, you're the one trying to force your tastes on others

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

My point is that not everyone reacts the same as you. I am not saying that the pictures are in ANY way comparable to that situation but I do have to point out that not everyone reacts the same and shaming them for it, not being 'comfortable with their sexuality', not only goes against the morals of your own argument but makes the topic uncomfortable to assess without emotion. In my mind he did change the channel...he did not write in.

I mean ultimately that's what it boils down to. Why else would someone report it? I don't like certain images that get posted here but instead of reporting them I can choose to ignore them. That's on the person to figure out themselves, not the mods.

The difference between people who want to see them compared to people who do is that there's an easy workaround for the crowd that doesn't want to see them. Go to the next pic, there are only a million others. When someone complains, the pictures get deleted. Not exactly fair or equal, is it?

I agree and arguing with you about it would point out my bias but I do not think we can have everyone happy -edit; that was silly to say, you guys knew this long before I typed :), but I do think have a good compromise.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

its a compromise not everyone shares your tastes and now you'll have a place where you can see it and talk about it without people ridiculing and leaving mean comments, photos getting deleted etc. get off your high horse I'm not deciding anything

No one's asking to conform to certain tastes except the people that report these images. The stance has always been "if you don't like it, skip it." Your angle happens to be that it challenges your sexuality so you report it.

What are those numbers? You're talking about this being some minority when I've pointed out someone that climbs to high score of the day when she's posted.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

No one's asking to conform to certain tastes except the people that report these images. The stance has always been "if you don't like it, skip it." Your angle happens to be that it challenges your sexuality so you report it.

What are those numbers? You're talking about this being some minority when I've pointed out someone that climbs to high score of the day when she's posted.

If it wasn't in the minority then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place? Your example is weak at best that's not indicative of anything really. Im not going to argue with you though there no point. nothing personal have a good one

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

If it wasn't in the minority then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place? Your example is weak at best that's not indicative of anything really. Im not going to argue with you though there no point. nothing personal have a good one

Does the people who report it outweigh the people who favorite or just don’t give a fuck? That’s the question you have to ask yourself. A vocal minority can still cause havoc with the mods.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Does the people who report it outweigh the people who favorite or just don’t give a fuck? That’s the question you have to ask yourself. A vocal minority can still cause havoc with the mods.

whatever makes you feel better, you cant prove that at all so its just conjecture

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