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> > For that reason, I don't think it's possible to improve the quality of comments. If the userbase is primarily only here because they're attracted to muscular women, they're not going to start commenting on their diet or workout plan, so there's really nothing else to say on these photos other than what we're already seeing. It's just a fact we have to accept. So, it's not worth any development or moderation effort to attempt to change that. No need to complicate things. Instead, it's best to just minimize the problems caused by the comments with your solution of making them visible only for logged in users. IMHO.
Ditto. This is a site that people come to to see pics and clips of gorgeous, muscular women. Period. If you're expecting the comments to reflect something other than that, you're dreaming. There's occasional sharing of information about a model, but mostly it's going to be, "Wow, she's hot!" And what's wrong with that?
If you're designing the site to attract the few women who might actually participate here if the content was "cleaner", rather than the thousands of users, that's also a losing proposition. Know who your "customers" are. They're not the women, they're the guys (and a few women) who come to look at pics of the women. My guess is that the comments are irrelevant to most of the people who visit here. I don't know how hiding them is going to make any difference.
There's too much hand-wringing about "what the neighbors might think". This site is what it is and trying to make too many changes is just going to kill it. If find it ironic that GWM advertises a site that is basically a porn cam site for muscle lovers and is suddenly worried about moral purity in the comments section.
"If you're designing the site to attract the few women who might actually participate here if the content was "cleaner", rather than the thousands of users, that's also a losing proposition."
You have spoken so much truth here! Thank you!
This goal of women visiting this site and never complaining is a pipe dream, it cannot and will not happen, no matter how much moderation goes on.
It's White Knight behaviour.
You have spoken so much truth here! Thank you!
This goal of women visiting this site and never complaining is a pipe dream, it cannot and will not happen, no matter how much moderation goes on.
It's White Knight behaviour.
Spot on.
One factor, possibly, but what you said was:
Except the comments section is what is leading many of the women featured on here to request their images be removed.
Phrasing it as though it were the main factor, which I doubt I ever said. Off the top of my head a very small number of removal requests (that I could count on one hand) have specifically referenced comments, out of very many.
Also, you just bumped an 8 month old thread to make an incorrect statement... I would hope, if you're going to do that, that you have something worthwhile to add.
That's just today's victim mentality hard at work: "Oh look at me, how hard my life is, instagram personality with 100k followers and numerous sponsorships, I occasionally get mean comments on the internet" Cry me a river.
Couldn't agree more. If being a "strong, independent woman" only applies when other people allow it to, by censoring themselves and one another, then you aren't strong or independent. Don't like it? Don't read it.
I don't exactly know the answer to the question "What makes GwM more valuable than an equivalent subreddit?"
Really?
How about the fact that Reddit doesn't have reliable image hosting and there's no way to keep posts on topic. Or the fact that this site is indexed and allows tags on top of it, so you can actually sort through years worth of material if you're looking for something?
A 100 subreddits could never equal half of what this site is. It's simply awesome and there's nothing else like it. Subreddit... pshhh...
It took me some time to understand why I suddenly needed to log in to see the comments. But now, after reading these two discussions I think I understand.
The problem is, like Pineapple pointed out in his initial message, the low effort and low quality of the comments. Before saying anything to this, please read my message in full. Otherwise you will be just wasting everyone's time.
I think the problem is threefold:
These problematic comments add nothing to anything. They serve the commenting person for the five seconds it takes to type them out. After that they're as valuable as used condoms littering the floor of a cafeteria.
These comments are about the person. Or his sudden burst of emotion or sexual excitement. These comments are not about the site, other participants or the people in the picture. It's like someone went on commenting "my butt itches" to a hundred pictures. Like dog poo at the side of the road, except this digital version does not get eaten by flies or washed away by rain.
These comments express the person's sexuality. Now this is the difficult one and I think I should split this into three parts:
3a)
This is inevitably and by definition a fetish site. This is not an insult. This is like saying that common automobiles have a steering wheel. The nature and extent of the sexual or fetish aspect is determined by what kind of pictures get posted.
A fantasy about or an attraction to body parts without any personal contact with the owner of the said body is called a fetish. Otherwise everyone here would need to be personal friends with one or more muscular women and I never expect this to happen.
3b)
Freedom of speech applies, by definition, to the owner of the medium or the publication. It does not apply to individual participants. This is not about anyone's human rights or rights to personhood or sexual orientation. So neither is this discussion about squashing anyone's rights to be a person or a sexual entity.
It seems to me that everyone agrees that the comments in question are a nuisance. The question always was if there's something that should or could be done, what should be tolerated and what shouldn't. I think this was Pineapple's actual idea too. Everything else has been off topic and a distraction.
3c)
I can't help or change anyone else's sexuality and neither do I want to. As long as someone does not touch his keyboard I have no possible way of knowing what is he doing or experiencing at any given moment.
Conversely, I don't want to witness or participate in the sexuality of some stereotypical random young man living in his mom's basement who can't express himself fluently. The problem is not the individual erection or the orgasm or their cause. The problem is the need to report them publicly.
It is one thing to tell people that one is in general attracted to petite lifters, such as Lea Kannowsky, or Natalia Freed minus the tats, and discuss the hows and whys of the attraction.
It's a completely different thing to announce to potentially seven billion people that one is having an erection to a picture of a petite powerlifter now.
It is this height of narcissism and immaturity that is at stake. Not some supposed sacred liberty of sexual expression or being oneself.
End of my list.
Of course it is completely within realm of possibility to agree that people can and should report their erections. I did not even know the meaning of "boing" until reading this discussion. Maybe because erections really don't happen that fast. And because I found it beneath anyone to run around sharing such things. Also, maybe one could remove the comment after it has passed?
I think adult entertainment as a whole is a misnomer. People become all selfish, childish and irrational when they get turned on.
Finally, the Puritans of the 16th to 18th century have nothing to do with medieval thought. I find it interesting that the Puritans were very much about rules and lawyering around things whereas the medieval thought wanted to look into the nature of things.
Technically and historically speaking, most of the people who opposed Pineapple were the actual Puritans. It is a Puritan thing to consider reality meaningless in itself and then have laws and rules give it meaning. Medieval people believed that reality itself is meaningful and that good laws and rules can only refer to a meaning that is already there.
they're as valuable as used condoms littering the floor of a cafeteria.
Yikes! Of all the places you could have chosen to litter the floor with condoms as a metaphor!? How about a bus station bathroom or behind the bleachers!?
And if we must have spooge in a cafeteria, I would prefer it be contained within the humble condom.
The thought never even crossed my mind, as I would never stoop so low.
The purpose of the expression is to bring to your mind the picture of someone having an erection. Even if it wasn't literally happening right now. Or to share with others that the particular picture is one of those that gives erections to the commenter.
Of all the places you could have chosen to litter the floor with condoms as a metaphor!?
Some people still expect the comments section to allow actually discussing the picture or the subject. This is why I thought of a cafe.
But like from the beginning, Pineapple had a point. People have attacked it and attacked him and been nitpicky and emotional but nobody has given a serious disagreement.
While Pineapple had a point, he also would stir shit up in comments and on the boards, so he wasn't exactly without blame.
IMO, and how I try to moderate photo comments, is from the perspective of a potential woman who has either registered here (obviously extremely rare) or knows someone that's on the site and have gotten reports of the comments.
Regardless of whatever any of us actually look like, for a woman (maybe anyone), there are few things more off-putting (nay, disgusting) than someone you find unattractive expressing their sexual attraction, or satisfaction.
For my part, I have no want or need to imagine any of y'all getting hard ons. This is why, even though I write, I don't engage in RP or talk about that stuff with anyone.
The anonymity of the internet always emboldens people to say whatever reaches their fingertips from their junk, but don't think that sometimes the comments don't have any bearing on whether or not they remain on the site.
on the flip side, there are two women in particular that i report comments to all the time--they are always OF reviews, and I have never had the need to censor any bad reviews or "inappropriate" language.
The purpose of the expression is to bring to your mind the picture of someone having an erection. Even if it wasn't literally happening right now. Or to share with others that the particular picture is one of those that gives erections to the commenter.
Some people still expect the comments section to allow actually discussing the picture or the subject. This is why I thought of a cafe.
But like from the beginning, Pineapple had a point. People have attacked it and attacked him and been nitpicky and emotional but nobody has given a serious disagreement.
Then stop thinking about people having erections. Seems to be a you problem.
And what cafeteria are you frequenting where there are used condoms littering the floor?
You didn't add much to the discourse with your wall of text, apart from expressing how much "boing" comments annoy you personally. Yeah, they are annoying, but not because it makes me think someone is having an erection. But because it makes the site trashy and objectifying to the women.
Then stop thinking about people having erections. Seems to be a you problem.
And what cafeteria are you frequenting where there are used condoms littering the floor?
You didn't add much to the discourse with your wall of text, apart from expressing how much "boing" comments annoy you personally. Yeah, they are annoying, but not because it makes me think someone is having an erection. But because it makes the site trashy and objectifying to the women.
"You didn't add anything except a point I agree with" This place is jam packed with geniuses.
But because it makes the site trashy and objectifying to the women.
I believe THIS is the discussion. This is a page with the sole purpose of objectifying women. In this case muscular women.
So I guess “boing” makes some of us sick because we believe we are not a part of making the women into objects. We want to feel that we are here for a higher purpose. I’m afraid we are not, but that’s totally ok.
I personally believe that we can be good and decent people while drooling over these pictures/clips. It’s not a question of right and wrong. At least if you do come here. Then maybe you should not.
I also think that the majority of the comments holds no content. I choose not to be bothered. The pics usually steal my attention.
GWM is one of my favourite things in the world after my family. :) Let’s keep it friendly.
I always found the word "boing" to be something similar to (and just as juvenile as) "shwing" from Wayne's World. Coincidentally shwing does mean something along the lines of someone being "boner-worthy."
But this is only one part of a much larger issue, and that's the extremely low degree of effort that many users put into comments. Personally the boner references don't bother me as much as the seemingly low IQ of the people who make them. I've never understood the concept of announcing a hard-on to a site full of horny men. Actually, it kind of makes sense through a homosexual lens, but if that's the case then perhaps these users should be frequenting sites like "Dudes with Muscle" instead. If that's what you're into, then that's fine, but don't expect the users of GWM to be into that as well.
But back to the low effort issue... it does get rather tiresome to see certain users bumping dozens of images in a row with the same comment:
And etc. There is inherently no value in such comments because it has no chance to spark any sort of discussion. Another user can come along and perhaps agree "yeah she's hot" and that's it. Otherwise it adds absolutely nothing.
It would in fact not be bothersome at all, except that I am subscribed to over 1,000 images (a user is automatically subscribed to receive notifications on all their uploads) and frequently get notifications of new comments. Checking these notifications... about 50-70% of the time it leaves me disappointed and mostly turns out to be a waste of time, for the reasons provided above.
I personally believe that we can be good and decent people while drooling over these pictures/clips.
Good is defined as something like the fullness of existence. A thing is good to the extent that it exists as fully as it can. So if someone believes that the purpose of his life or the highest state of his existence is to drool at pictures of female bodies then that's his choice. Not saying this to be for or against it. Saying this to get the definitions straight.
Decency is defined as conformity to prevailing standard of propriety, modesty, integrity or something like that. I think there are no such standards anymore, so by definition everyone is decent, or as decent as the next guy, but it has lost the meaning it once had. Everyone is expected to do what suits him best, given what he can get away with. For the word to mean something there would need to be something that is considered indecent. Maybe everyone who does not outright assault, rape or kill other people is decent.
So I guess “boing” makes some of us sick because we believe we are not a part of making the women into objects. We want to feel that we are here for a higher purpose.
You and who else? And what is the higher purpose you want to feel you are here for?
My behavior is not the behavior of someone else. The behavior of someone else is not my behavior. Being here does not automatically mean that someone is or is not objectifying someone else. There is a relationship between the one who looks at something and the thing being looked at. Women here have very different attitudes. Just compare Julia DeLo to Aline Marganne (Aline Dessine) to some third woman. The way they dress and pose signals that they desire to be looked at in a certain way. Now whoever sees the picture can then decide to see or not see what is being signaled. Aline desires to appear cute and sexy, Julia I think wants to look like an athlete.
I'm partially bothered by the seemingly low IQ of the comments but at least as much by the fact that the commenter is socially totally unaware that someone else might read the comment. Those comments are rude and antisocial towards other users of the site.
This is what I was also referring to by narcissism. It is a phenomenon in which a person feels like he does not exist unless he is seen or reacted to. The same goes for their sexuality. To really be attracted to and turned on by these women they need to make the announcement. The problem then becomes that they are objectifying every single reader of their comment.
I really do not care that much about the women and I don't even expect the great majority of them to ever see the comments. They also probably know that this is the Internet.
When it comes to objectifying the women, I think everyone makes his own individual choice here. My only intention has been for that choice to be an informed one if the person so wishes. My purpose for being here has been mostly to inform myself.
Have we considered, rather than viewing the comments as low quality, perhaps our expectations are too high?
What is the function/intent of the comment field to begin with?
Like anything on the great Internet, the majority of the information put in by “the crowd” will be junk.
Why can’t we simply view this as a natural feature, rather than a problem to be conquered?
I think the comments do serve a purpose: they create a sense of participation and sometimes, regardless of perceived quality, a sense of discourse. In short, they create a method to be involved with the site. And that’s a good thing. Right?
"You didn't add anything except a point I agree with" This place is jam packed with geniuses.
The whole topic of this discussion is the low effort comments, stating that they are annoying is not adding anything. If they weren't a problem this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.
I always found the word "boing" to be something similar to (and just as juvenile as) "shwing" from Wayne's World. Coincidentally shwing does mean something along the lines of someone being "boner-worthy."
That's what I said, it is a crude form of cat calling.
And etc. There is inherently no value in such comments because it has no chance to spark any sort of discussion. Another user can come along and perhaps agree "yeah she's hot" and that's it. Otherwise it adds absolutely nothing.
Yes the purpose of comments should be to spark discussion. But try getting that through to everyone.
I still think the best way to deal with low effort comments is to have an up/down vote system for comments, and if someone is constantly getting negative scores on their comments their image commenting rights should be revoked for a week or month. Also comments with a score of -5 or worse could be automatically hidden, needing a click on a warning to reveal them.
Keeping up with all the images on this site is time consuming enough, so why should we have to take time to think up a decent comment every time we make one? There are only so many things you can say, and therefore repetition is inevitable. The only comments I would want to see eradicated are the derogatory or sexist/sexual ones, which can be crass beyond belief.
Or you could become the sort of person who doesn't act on impulse whenever the apparent overwhelming desire to type out a lewd/derogatory/explicit comment enters your mind. Problem solved.