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Improving the image comments

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

Seriously? Are we still discussing this? I like to think Chainer has control over certain parameters. He does. I also like to think he's a reasonable guy. He is. Anyone else want to break a habit and cut the guy some slack? Everyone's so fucking uptight you forgot the basics. Rule 34.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

Chainer started this thread, which is why it would be respectful to give him some feedback.

Chainer
Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I read all the comments, although I don't have time to respond to each one individually.

I've made the comments visible to logged in users only, as planned. It seems there was general agreement that this is a good idea, and I can't see much of a downside.

Some of you mentioned wanting to block certain users so you don't see their comments. In case you don't know, that feature already exists: https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/users/blocks/

I'm not planning any other action right now, although one suggestion that I hadn't previously thought of, but I like a lot, is to have a delay between being able to leave successive comments, maybe between 15 to 30 minutes. I think a lot of the problem commenters do rapid bursts of comments, so this could be one way to discourage that group in particular with not much effort.

tamarok
Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

I would be happy with having all comments removed as they are rarely beneficial, +1 is enough. Comments and discussion can then happen in the forum.

Chainer already covered this in his post. His concern is that comments wouldn’t necessarily get voted on based on rules, but on how people like them. So there may be a comment that is not respectful, but people like what is written and vote it up. I have seen sites with this kind of system and sometimes perfectly fine comments get voted down, because they upset the group think.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

In every social media platform (be it YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, or whatever) more than 90% of users don't even comment. In my opinion, the reason there is such a small number of "good" comments is that people simply don't want to leave comments.

Assuming only 2% of users comment, from what I've seen, I'd say 1.5% are "meaningless, derogatory, or inappropriate" comments. If those get restricted, only 0.5% will be commenting, at that point, comments will be non-existent.

That said, I do agree that poorly written comments (by the above definition) create a bad name for the majority of users, which keep to themselves and are probably very respectful people.

In my opinion, you can't get rid of those comments, since that would kill the comments section. So my suggestion is instead of discouraging poorly written comments, why not create a system that encourages "good" comments? If this works, the good comments would drown out the poor comments, leading to an overall more positive experience.

In summary, I didn't iron out any details, but I suggest looking into some kind of incentive system, that rewards good comments in an attempt to drown out the poor comments.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

I agree with Chainer's changes to the site, and I also think that asianfitnessfan's point is worth noting. How many changes can you make to this site before it's made obsolete by an equivalent subreddit? I don't exactly know the answer to the question "What makes GwM more valuable than an equivalent subreddit?" (whether it's community, or sheer volume and variety of content) but it's worth keeping that in mind as changes are made.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

would have a better chance of passing the do-women-want-to-see-this test.

That's probably not a test that would achieve anything of much value. Some women love the site, some women hate the site, and most either don't know about it or don't know enough to care. You could make it the sweetest, most wholesome site ever with butterflies and cute stories about rescue puppies and some would still hate it. There are people who choose to look down on fans of muscular women.

Do the people who come here enjoy coming here and do they feel good about it? Or do they come and leave feeling a little bit dirty because someone said the wrong thing? I don't know about most people, but I like the site and have no reservations about being a member here. I also don't give a shit what anyone thinks about me, so that helps.

Subreddits don't do female muscle very well, so there's no threat there. GWM is good and it's evolving.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

Subreddits don't do female muscle very well, so there's no threat there. GWM is good and it's evolving.

But I would look at every other major forum from the period that this website was founded (late 2000s, early 2010s) and ask what happened to them... if a significant enough change happens to the website, it's entirely possible that its user base will merge with a subreddit. Not saying that its inevitable, but it's entirely possible.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

There is no magic incantation I can put anywhere on the site that changes the makeup of the userbase and short of that, people who are attracted to muscular women will continue to make comments indicative of this fact.

For that reason, I don't think it's possible to improve the quality of comments. If the userbase is primarily only here because they're attracted to muscular women, they're not going to start commenting on their diet or workout plan, so there's really nothing else to say on these photos other than what we're already seeing. It's just a fact we have to accept. So, it's not worth any development or moderation effort to attempt to change that. No need to complicate things. Instead, it's best to just minimize the problems caused by the comments with your solution of making them visible only for logged in users. IMHO.

Mar 16, 2021 - permalink

That sounds like a cool idea and short of a bio, I have considered it. It would probably have to be user-sourced though, in the same way that the names under images are user-sourced. I doubt anyone would want to write bios for the probably 25K+ women on the site, though.

For the actual athletes on the site, I would suggest a bot that scraped NPC and similar sites. You could get contest results and other basic info that way. Then just match accordingly. Only potential issue is if there are competitors with the same first and last names.

If GWM is built on something like django or flask this could be completely automated.

Mar 17, 2021 - permalink
  1. Thanks Chainer for making comments hidden to non-registered users. That makes the "front window" of the website less off-putting to new users.
  2. I think the site is really good and improving all the time and we shouldn't lose sight of that.
  3. Pineapple is fine to critique people's comments and there may need to be changes there. But calling people perverts and fetishists (whatever that means) is uncalled for. There are hundreds of fetishes out there, most seem pretty odd to the uninitiated. Doesn't mean your idea of what is sexy is any nobler than anyone else's. Take that Puritanical kink shaming back to the Dark Ages where it belongs.
Mar 17, 2021 - permalink
Deleted by Chainer
Mar 17, 2021 - permalink

Well said. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Don't let a few weirdos stir up trouble, and then disappear up their own backsides.

Mar 17, 2021 - edited Mar 17, 2021 - permalink

@Tall 1: "for that reason, I don't think it's possible to improve the quality of comments."

Oh, there is a really big tool to improve comments. It's simple. You want to comment on pictures or clips, then you upload pictures or clips.

There are persons who have been on the site for years; I won't "out" anyone in particular; and have made thousands of comments. But, one looks at their profiles and one finds 0 uploads.

It is Chainer's site, as several have pointed out. And despite the comment to "send that Puritanical kink shaming back to the Dark Ages," said "kink shaming" exists in modern USA society (hint: its origin is in fundamentalist religion). Any site such as this one has to tread a careful path. I appreciate Chainer's effort in treading that path, and also keeping GwM as a free site.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Any site such as this one has to tread a careful path. I appreciate Chainer's effort in treading that path, and also keeping GwM as a free site.

I agree and see your point, but I don't think an explanation is going to resolve anything. Turnover will continue, pictures will be uploaded and members are a spoke on an otherwise continuously spinning wheel.

That's how it works right?

[deleted]
Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

Why exactly do we have to tread a careful path? Unless the site administration is using images of women for commercial gain without their knowledge and compensation, no laws are being broken.

Are we worried about moral backlash? I have only seen a small handful of people raise moral outrage for sexualizing muscular women. The site administration could have told such individuals to leave and take their Puritan values elsewhere. Instead the administration capitulated and entertained them.

This whole thing is much ado about nothing, really.

Mar 18, 2021 - permalink

I don't think it makes sense to link the ability to comment to how much someone uploads pictures. That would lead to much fewer comments overall, I can't imagine that is the goal. I have only uploaded a few pics but I was never under the impression that I was required to do that. I imagine the vast majority of users have never uploaded a picture. It also doesn't fix the perceived problem of the content of the comments. Whether or not you upload a lot doesn't correlate to how appropriate your comments are.

PS my Puritan point was aimed squarely at Pineapple's attitude in this thread and the previous thread. I am happy with how Chainer is managing the site, including the comments and the forum.

Mar 19, 2021 - permalink

I don't think it makes sense to link the ability to comment to how much someone uploads pictures. That would lead to much fewer comments overall, I can't imagine that is the goal. I have only uploaded a few pics but I was never under the impression that I was required to do that. I imagine the vast majority of users have never uploaded a picture. It also doesn't fix the perceived problem of the content of the comments. Whether or not you upload a lot doesn't correlate to how appropriate your comments are.

PS my Puritan point was aimed squarely at Pineapple's attitude in this thread and the previous thread. I am happy with how Chainer is managing the site, including the comments and the forum.

What is the goal? Is there one? Even without comments, people will visit the site for the pictures.

M76
Apr 09, 2021 - permalink

I'm glad my suggestion was heeded. Nobody wants to see inappropriate comments coming up when googling their own name. Even worse their employers googling their name. Social media background checks are the norm these days.

Apr 09, 2021 - permalink

It's a good change - fence off the yard to hide the cringe from the neighbours.

Apr 09, 2021 - permalink

although it definitely doesn't stop people w/access from screenshotting comments and sending them to the appropriate party. kristina moser posted a comment from the "bad experience" thread to her instagram so people will make it public if they want

M76
Apr 10, 2021 - permalink

Well, if they themselves want to put it on the billboard they can only blame themselves. That's just today's victim mentality hard at work: "Oh look at me, how hard my life is, instagram personality with 100k followers and numerous sponsorships, I occasionally get mean comments on the internet" Cry me a river.

Apr 10, 2021 - permalink

For that reason, I don't think it's possible to improve the quality of comments. If the userbase is primarily only here because they're attracted to muscular women, they're not going to start commenting on their diet or workout plan, so there's really nothing else to say on these photos other than what we're already seeing. It's just a fact we have to accept. So, it's not worth any development or moderation effort to attempt to change that. No need to complicate things. Instead, it's best to just minimize the problems caused by the comments with your solution of making them visible only for logged in users. IMHO.

Ditto. This is a site that people come to to see pics and clips of gorgeous, muscular women. Period. If you're expecting the comments to reflect something other than that, you're dreaming. There's occasional sharing of information about a model, but mostly it's going to be, "Wow, she's hot!" And what's wrong with that?

If you're designing the site to attract the few women who might actually participate here if the content was "cleaner", rather than the thousands of users, that's also a losing proposition. Know who your "customers" are. They're not the women, they're the guys (and a few women) who come to look at pics of the women. My guess is that the comments are irrelevant to most of the people who visit here. I don't know how hiding them is going to make any difference.

There's too much hand-wringing about "what the neighbors might think". This site is what it is and trying to make too many changes is just going to kill it. If find it ironic that GWM advertises a site that is basically a porn cam site for muscle lovers and is suddenly worried about moral purity in the comments section.

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