Help me design a new tags system

I sent a message to the moderators about my above suggestion, and I was literally told BY A MODERATOR to post my idea to this forum. So, what do you want me to do?

That's a rhetorical question, if you don't realize. I really don't care what you want me to do.

To this forum or this thread? If the latter then the moderator clearly can't read either.

A longer explanation of my above suggestion was responded to thusly:

"We already have a forum topic on this: https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/..."

I took that as, "don't send us a message about this b/c we already have a place for you to post these kinds of suggestions."

People still can't read the purpose of this thread...

They just can't imagine what "designing a system" could possibly mean.

It's important that the new system should not require too much manual work. That's why it's necessary to both design and weight it appropriately. For example, if someone maliciously tags some image, I think the site should always show that the tag exists so that people can give negative tags or untags to counter it, but it should show the tag as valid only when there are more "tags" than "untags", and maybe count an untag as minus half a tag, or even less. Presuming that there is some ratio between sane and dumb taggers.

People would also need to distinguish between different meanings one tag can have. Say a tag like biceps can not mean that the person has biceps, because everyone has. And tagging every muscle that happens to be visible also makes no sense. So it must be either that the picture is somehow about the biceps or that the model has impressive biceps that are also visible in the picture.

Or we could try to find a simple way to stop trolls and people with room temperature IQ from using the system altogether. "I see bare arms, I tag biceps." The purpose of the system and individual tags should either be somewhat obvious if there's no way to have instructions and make sure people see them before using the system, or the system should in some way be self-fixing.

A moderator just locked a thread suggesting a new tag https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/... and referred them to this thread:

Yet, I repeat, the original starter of this thread , clearly stated:

NOTE: This thread is not for new tag suggestions!

Is it or isn't it?!!!

I can think of two new systems (or perhaps additional systems), which are bit similar.

(1) danbooru's pool-system

(about the original concept: https://danbooru.donmai.us/wiki_pages/help:pools). Pools are (ordered) collection of related images. In case of GWM you could think of pools for specific bodybuilding poses, or for images that a magazine covers, or for measuring muscles. An image can be part of more than one pool.

Moderators or designated users would have to make sure that the pools don't overlap too much and that the pools are not too general (for example rather a pool "Musclegirls in polka dot bikinis" than "Musclegirls in bikinis").

It would require a feature to search for images of a given pool (perhaps combined with the other search options) and a feature to show in which pool(s) a given image is part of (if any).

(2) deviantart's collection-system

(about the original concept: https://www.deviantartsupport.com/en/article/...) Every user can create one collection (or a number of collections). The users can choose the title of the collection. In deviantart it is a subgroup of your favorites.

In this case you could add the feature search for images by collection (similar to search for images favorited by user) and perhaps add a feature to subscribe to collections, so you can see which collections are popular.

Yea I've recommended this system too, some time ago. I still think it's a very convinient and powerful system to use tags for search. With the benefit that the tags are even more categorized like Models - Stats - whatever ... I would still think it would be very helpful here :)

(1) danbooru's pool-system

(about the original concept: https://danbooru.donmai.us/wiki_pages/help:pools). Pools are (ordered) collection of related images. In case of GWM you could think of pools for specific bodybuilding poses, or for images that a magazine covers, or for measuring muscles. An image can be part of more than one pool.

Moderators or designated users would have to make sure that the pools don't overlap too much and that the pools are not too general (for example rather a pool "Musclegirls in polka dot bikinis" than "Musclegirls in bikinis").

It would require a feature to search for images of a given pool (perhaps combined with the other search options) and a feature to show in which pool(s) a given image is part of (if any).

I think they don't want the danbooru system. because this site wants to appear very clean and mainstream and serious. and avoid fetishism like feet or mixed wrestling or stockings. hoping this will attract more real muscular women who don't want to join a full porn site. but are interested in more niche minor platforms that don't have some of the bullshit of Instagram and TikTok. And sponsors and advertisers too.

That's relatable and also a reason why I'm here regularly. I'm not looking for p0rn either. How I see the danbooru kind of tagging wouldn't have to set the site differently, it's just pretty flexible and powerful :D

you dispense with tags and introduce an AI layer that is trained on the photos and comments, and can spontaneously organize and present photos in different ways based on a user interacting with the AI about what they are looking for, and progressively refining their search.

you dispense with tags and introduce an AI layer that is trained on the photos and comments, and can spontaneously organize and present photos in different ways based on a user interacting with the AI about what they are looking for, and progressively refining their search.

To traine the AI you need a large dataset of pre tagged images to train, test and maintain the AI and the best way to get those tags and images is to have the users set them. So you want to keep the tags.

But it can be used to either suggest tags or set tags.

nope. AI can already see the images and understand them and develop it's own tags or way to organise them based on image patterns. it can also parse all comments and existing tags and find trends associated with images. what you just said about tags is about 10 to 15 years out of date. though of course, the more we comment and tag things, the better the AI gets. so im not against tags either, i just dont think that will be the ultimate way humans interact with image databases. its clunky and things get over tagged.

• keep the same default tags
• the Tag section Edit button opens the same way but has a 'New tag' text field with an 'Add' button on the right
• as soon as you start typing suggestions of already existing non-default tags come up, like with the names
• every added tag both default and custom is a link but instead of taking you to a search for the tag it votes +1 for the tag
• user sees the tags he voted on in bold
• tags are sorted on load by their votes
• obviously there must be a blacklist for custom tags and moderators need to be able to edit, merge or remove them

This would be my core idea :)

Re the 'teen' tag: if the site doesn't show models under the age of 18, then that theoretically means that the only 'teens' acceptable are 19-year-olds. So why do we need it? Also: I've seen the 'casual' tag applied to pics of models wearing quite elaborate costumes. I understand that it used to be a bookend to the 'glamor' tag, which no longer exists.

Re the 'teen' tag: if the site doesn't show models under the age of 18, then that theoretically means that the only 'teens' acceptable are 19-year-olds. So why do we need it?

Discussed here on the thread I started on the same issue: https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/...

A tag for pec flexing should be great

This thread should be included in a study as to what percentage of users in a forum actually read the original post.

We will usually close threads with tag suggestions because it will be unlikely that Chainer will modify the existing list. Any changes will come as part of an overhaul of the tag system. When this happens all comes down to priorities and available time. It is also about taking into account any possible unintended consequences.

I've had some renewed interest in this recently and re-read the thread.

As usual, I plan to go with a simpler approach rather than adding more bells and whistles right off the bat because I'd rather add more functionality later once it's clear it's needed rather than overcomplicate it from the start unnecessarily.

Here's an outline of what I plan to have:

• All the current tags are kept.
• A freeform text field that autocompletes with existing tags where you can add or edit tags on an image; much like the current model name field.
• Ability to add tags right after uploading, like with model names.
• Some reasonable character limit (15?) on tags to keep them from getting overly complicated.
• There will still be a limit on the number of tags per image but probably higher than currently, since the tags will be more varied.
• Mods will have the ability to merge and delete tags. Deleted tags cannot be recreated later.

Here are some things that have been proposed that I'm not planning to implement, at least initially:

• Ability to vote on tags. First, as a measure of a tag's popularity, this seems redundant with the actual usage of the tag; second, I don't see how this would fit in with the rest of the system: where does the voting happen? Is it a separate page? What are the consequences of voting on tags? Some of you may remember the vote queue where people voted on which newly uploaded images should be posted to the site, and my experience was that this did not work particularly well. I'd rather go with the model of people report bad tags and mods can choose to delete them.
• Model-level tags. I think this is a good idea but I'd rather wait and see what kind of tags people choose to use. In any case, if I later choose to have model-level tags, it can be reverse engineered pretty easily by running a script to see which tags get used disproportionately for particular models, rather than on an image-to-image basis.
• Tag categories. I think it's just too complicated to start with this, again I'd rather wait and see how tags are used.
• Mod approval needed for tags before they can be used. I don't want to burden the mod team with having to approve every tag; it's easy enough to delete them later once they come to our attention.

Sounds good, I hope you can implement it soon. Will the ability to add tags after uploading the image be mandatory?

Sounds solid, but here are my two cents with a few minor points I'd throw out there:

1. The character limit of 15 is going to be awkward since currently, there is a tags with 16 chars: "overall physique" (though I am making no claim how useful that tag actually is).

2. What characters will be allowed in tags? Model names allow some Non-ASCII characters (I think?), but I think tag names could be stricter, maybe just English letters and spaces.

3. Reporting tags (as well as finding the rules for them) should be easy, ideally directly from an image that has a tag. (Since at the start, there will most likely be a lot of undesirable tags)

4. Is there going to be a site that lists all the tabs with a filter, and sorting like the current models page? Otherwise, it'll be difficult to stick to common variants of a tag even if you want to do so. If such a site exists, a report button here would also be nice. This also answers the issue on where to vote, although I agree it isn't all that useful.

5. If a tag is merged, does a user who wants to use the "losing" tag see what it was merged into or just that it isn't available? Maybe the tag overview page (if it exists) should also have a mode to show merged tags.

6. Is there going to be a restriction on who can create new tags (similar to the way Stack Exchange is set up)?

I might come up with more points later on, those are just the obvious questions I can see off the top of my head.