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They might have their own names too. I've never delved into their subcultures so I don't know.
The average person also doesn't know what a schmoe is. Most people don't know attraction to muscular women is even a thing. It's not so much because they find them unattractive, it's just that they don't really think about it much the way that we do.
I don't embrace the word myself. Yeah it has been stigmatized, so I wouldn't wear it proudly out in public.
Perhaps this is one reason there is so much negativity around muscular women.
No it isn't. It could at best be one reason why there is so much negativity around men who have a fetish about muscular women. But there really is not much negativity around either. Most people are completely unaware of and uninterested in both muscular females and their fans.
But the greater error you are making is when you suggest that words somehow create reality. They don't. A slur usually refers to something that exists in reality. If I said that Latinos are known for being the greediest or most orderly people in existence and created a slur to signify that, it would not catch on, because nobody would recognize what it is about.
Why must there be a name attached?
Why call a kitten a kitten and a rose a rose?
I already explained elsewhere that the word 'schmoe' comes from the expression "Joe Schmoe", which simply means "the average person" or "a random guy". The word by itself has no negativity associated with it. The negativity depends on the context where it is used.
Why do people talk negatively about muscular women? Because for some of them it is a narcissistic obsession that destroys their health. For some it's just a sport, sometimes a lifestyle. For some it's a way to recover from an eating disorder or other mental illness.
Why do people talk negatively about men who like muscular women? Because some of them totally lack social graces, some are outright disgusting and some are just losers you would never want to hire, befriend or let your pathologically nice daughter have anything to do with. Some are fine but a bit strange.
The word usually does not include those men who also do strength sports or participate in the bodybuilding subculture or have dated or married muscular women.
Any thoughts?
I would say that you were confused on a few different levels, but in reality there's nothing to complain about.
There's negativity attached to men who like muscular women for four main reasons:
1) Muscular women flip the expected gender dynamic of physical strength. Lots of people find that unappealing and threatening.
2) Many people find the simple aesthetic of muscular women to be very unattractive. They might feel the same about thin and effeminate men.
3) "Schomes" are often the victim of homophobia. Ignorant people in society think that it's "gay" if a man likes a muscular woman. They think that schmoes have repressed homosexual tendencies and that's why we like these girls.
4) Muscular women and the men who like them are also often the victim of transphobia.They think that all muscular women are transgender or look transgender. This is of course complicated by heavy PED use. The drug regimens for a competitive FBB and a female-to-male transgender man can overlap, although the FBB is usually using WAY more testosterone than the average trans man (or regular man for that matter). FBB's will eventually show male secondary sex characteristcs like facial hair, deepening voices, and hair loss.
Transphobia is such an interesting and sad phenomenon in our own community. Some guys here will just lose their mind with outrage over the idea of a trans girl with muscle. But if you ever look at a mainstream Instagram post with one of our favorite objectively feminine models (think Vladi, Lindmark, Dianna, etc), you'll see a million hate responses of "THAT'S A MAN BABY" and "WOW THAT DUDE HAS BICEPS." The majority of idiots out there already think that every fairly muscular woman is or looks trans.
I know this for a fact concerning the origin of the term SCHMOE….. FBB pioneer Kay Baxter coined the term when she would be talking to other FBB(s) about the guys who follow them either at shows or sessions. It is simply a genetic term derived from “Joe Schmoe” and it should not be construed as negative…. I’ve been following muscular women for over 50 years and don’t find any insult by the term…..
I already explained elsewhere that the word 'schmoe' comes from the expression "Joe Schmoe", which simply means "the average person" or "a random guy".
I would say that you were confused on a few different levels...
Just for clarification: where does the "schmoe" in your "Joe Schmoe" reference come from?
I know this for a fact concerning the origin of the term SCHMOE….. FBB pioneer Kay Baxter coined the term when she would be talking to other FBB(s) about the guys who follow them either at shows or sessions. It is simply a genetic term derived from “Joe Schmoe” and it should not be construed as negative…. I’ve been following muscular women for over 50 years and don’t find any insult by the term…..
Unrelated, but Kay Baxter is the FBB in David Lee Roth's "Califorina Girls." She trained David Lee Roth at Gold's Gym in Venice Beach. She died in a car accident in the 80's when she was driving her gold Corvette on Mulholland Drive, riding in the wrong lane with a passenger named "Neil Axe"
This is, overall, the most 1980's series of events ever.
I know this for a fact concerning the origin of the term SCHMOE….. FBB pioneer Kay Baxter coined the term when she would be talking to other FBB(s) about the guys who follow them either at shows or sessions. It is simply a genetic term derived from “Joe Schmoe” and it should not be construed as negative…. I’ve been following muscular women for over 50 years and don’t find any insult by the term…..
Over 40 years here (going on 50 years), and I remember how the word was used among the FBBs especially in the 80’s and 90’s.
Perhaps this is one reason there is so much negativity around muscular women. Why must there be a name attached? For example, what are guys who like fat women called? What are guys who like skinny women called? If a guy likes blondes, what is he called? What is a guy called who only likes Asian women? I know the term has been around for over 30 years, but makes it seem as if guys who are into muscular women are deviants. Any thoughts?
Do YOU want a unique nickname for male fans of female muscle?
I figured its because Shmoes are just unwanted/awkward to be around. A lot of them go to shows just to creep/hit on women, and they stick out like a sore thumb since they're the only out of shape people there, usually have no interest in the sport, and just aren't something people want to see when they go to shows.
When I was in HS and college, ages ago, my friends and I called dudes schmoes who were all around losers. Had nothing to do specifically with GWM. Schmoes were/are guys who are not educated, have dead end jobs, may live at home as adults, can’t get any girl, socially awkward with few if any friends and are generally out of shape and don’t work out. Schmoes can also be creepy. Aren’t serial killers often also schmoes? And school shooters?
There are plenty of normal or alpha males who prefer athletic, buff women and who would never fall into the schmoe category.
I think that the word is harmless. My experience:
1) Younger girls (let's say under 35) don't even know it. Certainly don't use it
2) More mature women who have been in the scene sometimes use it, but not that seriously. It can kind of be a term of endearment.
3) Male fans of female muscle will sometimes use it to refer to themselves. Like a nerdy guy might call himself a "nerd."
And I'll say this - most of the times that I hear women use it, they are referring to guys who are customers. Guys who buy content and sign up for subscriptions and book sessions. Guys who go to contests and buy tickets and say hello to the competitors. A "schmoe" is a man who's in the scene enough to financially support it.
I don't think that they look down on this. They actively like schmoes. It's the leeches (men with fake profiles on IG sending them endless messages) and the weird incels (guys who like muscular women but hate when they earn money with their muscles) who are the bane of their existence. I've never heard them describe either of these groups as schmoes.
Schmoes, by definition, are supporting the sport. I'm a schmoe and proud of it!
If you're a guy who just gets off to pictures and videos, you never buy anything, never go to any bodybuilding shows, and never communicate with any of these women, then you're not a schmoe. You're just a dude who's turned on by girls with muscles. Nothing wrong with that either.
Speaking bodybuilding world only, I think it's largely intended to be an insult when used by people outside the female muscle fan community. As a result, I've made the decision to avoid use of the term. Even though I don't take PERSONAL offense to being called this name - because, fuck yeah, I love this shit! - I'm not in the business of insulting our customers.
Willing to be tone depends on their situation. If they’re financially in good shape and doing fetish stuff is an extra that isn’t funding anything exept date night or whatever it’s very different from someone where they are knocking down big dominos with your payments
Of course there are guys that don’t pay on time, or are rude, or ask for free shit all the time, or get pissy when they don’t get their way, make multiple accounts when they get blocked etc etc who earn the moniker
Bro, that’s WAY beyond “psycho muscle fan”. We have some creeps - and I’ve been labeled a “creep” myself more than a few times - but the worst I’ve ever heard of from our people was unwanted touching or contact, à la excessive emails or stalking: e.g showing up at a girl’s gym or job or competition.
Stalking behavior is extremely threatening. But breaking and entering?? That’s next-level. I am thankful that no one was hurt, but until there is actual evidence to support that characterization, please don’t claim this perpetrator as a member of our community. I do hope they identify the criminal so he can be brought to justice.
I’m just saying there is a sure overlap and he could be a member here. Similar but worse than the Michelle Gavin incident but your average stalker isn’t obsessed with a woman as muscular as Hunter without being into this stuff. Just like DD isn’t starting a podcast interviewing FBs without being into it.
I saw that story and was sick to my stomach. Thank the stars nothing physical happened, but obviously Hunter and Co are going to need therapy to try and subside this new extreme trauma.
Here's hoping the footage gets this piece of s*** caught and brought to justice
Schmoe is Yiddish for loser, jerk, fool etc... It's basically an insult. It's probably a way of dehumanising fans so they don't feel bad taking money from them. But it does point to a certain amount of self-loathing to refer to people who appreciate and support you in this way. But then some of the fans out there probably make a good case for this being an apt name, i.e. paying for sexual gratification etc... A Schmoe is someone to be used and thrown away, but it is the Schmoe doing the using by paying for a service... Relationships and power dynamics can get quite complicated when you start breaking them down, lots of ramifications.
Relationships and power dynamics can get quite complicated when you start breaking them down, lots of ramifications.
This is a seller's market as far as I know. Though I do appreciate the Norwegians and their theory of economics, where every transaction is ideally a meeting of two equal forces. She has the power to take your money, which gives you the power to use her body for gratification. If she wants too much money for the amount of gratification she offers, there will be no deal. You want too much gratification for that amount of money, the same thing.
Some might argue it is de facto somewhat dehumanizing to either sell or buy sexual gratification. If it's an apt description then it's not necessarily an insult. A man has in a way "dehumanized" himself already at that point, so it does not make sense that these women, by their choice of words, would get the blame for it. I also doubt they feel bad taking anyone's money. Why would they? Why would any salesperson in general feel bad for doing their job? Unless they believe the product they're offering is not really worth it.
Here again words, when properly used, describe reality, instead of creating it.
Some men get the female attention they want for free. Many more have simply learned to live without it. Using anything to get it that is not properly part of your personality, such as money, power, deception or coercion, is artificial. It makes something happen that would not if it were purely up to their personalities.
If two people are fine buying and selling sexual gratification and think or feel that it does not dehumanize them, or that it feels good enough and is fun enough even if it does, then that's the choice they're making. By this I don't mean someone should or should not. By this I mean that this is the core of the issue and one should neither deny nor overcomplicate it.
This is a seller's market as far as I know. Though I do appreciate the Norwegians and their theory of economics, where every transaction is ideally a meeting of two equal forces. She has the power to take your money, which gives you the power to use her body for gratification. If she wants too much money for the amount of gratification she offers, there will be no deal. You want too much gratification for that amount of money, the same thing.
Some might argue it is de facto somewhat dehumanizing to either sell or buy sexual gratification. If it's an apt description then it's not necessarily an insult. A man has in a way "dehumanized" himself already at that point, so it does not make sense that these women, by their choice of words, would get the blame for it. I also doubt they feel bad taking anyone's money. Why would they? Why would any salesperson in general feel bad for doing their job? Unless they believe the product they're offering is not really worth it.
Here again words, when properly used, describe reality, instead of creating it.
Some men get the female attention they want for free. Many more have simply learned to live without it. Using anything to get it that is not properly part of your personality, such as money, power, deception or coercion, is artificial. It makes something happen that would not if it were purely up to their personalities.
If two people are fine buying and selling sexual gratification and think or feel that it does not dehumanize them, or that it feels good enough and is fun enough even if it does, then that's the choice they're making. By this I don't mean someone should or should not. By this I mean that this is the core of the issue and one should neither deny nor overcomplicate it.
Humans are funny. It's laughable to suggest that two sober, informed adults are not competent to engage in fair trade involving "sexual gratification". The "dehumanizing" part is telling any party they don't have license to market and sell their own sexuality.
A promo clip of the finger-wagging podcast guy appeared on my feed yesterday. He's extensively groping one of the models and putting on some sort of performance that's even funnier in the context of his "you dirty guys are just looking at pictures of fit women so you can masturbate!" rants.
If looking at hot women gets you off, so what? How did you getting off to something legal bring harm to anyone else? But don't be a weirdo who gropes women and then complains that other guys like to touch and look at women, too.
Perhaps this is one reason there is so much negativity around muscular women. Why must there be a name attached? For example, what are guys who like fat women called? What are guys who like skinny women called? If a guy likes blondes, what is he called? What is a guy called who only likes Asian women? I know the term has been around for over 30 years, but makes it seem as if guys who are into muscular women are deviants. Any thoughts?