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Everyone has the right to draw their line wherever they want, but some of y'all chest-puffers are on fantasy fucking stasi island.
A special island where the former East German secret police live out their fantasies? HARD PASS COMRADE!
Using synthol or similar substances to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Having cosmetic surgery to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Using anabolics in bodybuilding and bodybuilding-adjacent activities is NOT cheating.
Everyone has the right to draw their line wherever they want, but some of y'all chest-puffers are on fantasy fucking stasi island.
I agree with this, with the exception being women entering natural bodybuilding contests. In that case, PED use would be cheating.
Using synthol or similar substances to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Having cosmetic surgery to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Using anabolics in bodybuilding and bodybuilding-adjacent activities is NOT cheating.
Everyone has the right to draw their line wherever they want, but some of y'all chest-puffers are on fantasy fucking stasi island.
I think I'd agree with all that too.
Competing in a division that is explicitly for natural competitors when you are currently using or have used PEDs is cheating. There are plenty of untested federations out there, but to go to a natural comp simply because you know you have a better chance of winning is bullshit and makes you a shitty person.
Competing in a division that is explicitly for natural competitors when you are currently using or have used PEDs is cheating. There are plenty of untested federations out there, but to go to a natural comp simply because you know you have a better chance of winning is bullshit and makes you a shitty person.
This is my PED exception.
I know this thread is a spinoff of my comment in the Andrews thread but I stick by it. Everyone knows people use in untested shows, no one cares--if you are doing a natty show don't use PEDs and lie about it, but the IFBB..well we know they're using.
I'm not sure if bodybuilding is quite there yet, maybe they are, but at least in baseball the sentiment around PEDs seems to be softening given how MLB and the people around them seem to be picking and choosing what to come down on. Steroids bad! But we'll just nail a couple of obvious guys and ignore the rest of the league. Cheating bad! But the cooperated so it doesn't mean much. Gmabling bad! But we'll promote gambling as an adjacent activity.
For me, there is an easy distinction. Yes, PEDs are a foreign substance, but you still need to put the work in. Implants and injections are also foreign, but they change body shape without any work at all. Well, at least not the work of the person getting the changes done.
For me, there is an easy distinction. Yes, PEDs are a foreign substance, but you still need to put the work in. Implants and injections are also foreign, but they change body shape without any work at all. Well, at least not the work of the person getting the changes done.
Hear, hear. Some people still believe that PEDs are some kind of cartoon muscle potion, where the user takes them and starts growing, while many more think they make the user grow bigger while working out the same. What PEDs do (in a grossly simplified way) is allow the user to work out more without losing muscle (cathabolism or slt). I'm not a fan of PEDs because of the results they produce: even without the side effects, they cause particularly looking muscular bodies I'm not very fond of.
Competing in a division that is explicitly for natural competitors when you are currently using or have used PEDs is cheating. There are plenty of untested federations out there, but to go to a natural comp simply because you know you have a better chance of winning is bullshit and makes you a shitty person.
Absolutely. And even more when natural comps are one among a hundred these days. This will drive many natural competitors away from the stage, or worse, push them into using drugs to get prizes.
Some people still believe that PEDs are some kind of cartoon muscle potion, where the user takes them and starts growing, while many more think they make the user grow bigger while working out the same. What PEDs do (in a grossly simplified way) is allow the user to work out more without losing muscle (cathabolism or slt).
Technically true. In my (somewhat limited) experience with PEDs though, they work so well. In my case I literally felt like a super hero (mostly in terms of recovery).
While I agree using PEDs for a 'natural' comp is a shitty thing to do, part of me wonders why should we even bother with the facade of a natural bodybuilding competition, unless the budget exists to be monitoring and testing the athletes every 20 minutes to be (more) sure they are in fact natural.
I suppose my definition of cheating would also be injections or surgery.
Using synthol or similar substances to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Having cosmetic surgery to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Using anabolics in bodybuilding and bodybuilding-adjacent activities is NOT cheating.
Everyone has the right to draw their line wherever they want, but some of y'all chest-puffers are on fantasy fucking stasi island.
Question: What motivated you to start this thread? I ask because the prevalence of GWM subscribers accusing FBBs here of cheating, using synthol, photoshopping/morphing images, and complaints about rampant PED use have picked up a lot in the past couple weeks. People are just being meaner, judging more harshly. I don't know why. It leaves me with the feeling that this website is being trolled by a group of people. Not saying they're a coordinated group, but FBB bashing has increased a lot. Is that why you posted this thread?
Cheating should be called out, but why have accusations (both legit and false) increased so much?
A special island where the former East German secret police live out their fantasies? HARD PASS COMRADE!
Yes, not interested in a literal Gulag Archipelago. :-)
Technically true. In my (somewhat limited) experience with PEDs though, they work so well. In my case I literally felt like a super hero (mostly in terms of recovery).
While I agree using PEDs for a 'natural' comp is a shitty thing to do, part of me wonders why should we even bother with the facade of a natural bodybuilding competition, unless the budget exists to be monitoring and testing the athletes every 20 minutes to be (more) sure they are in fact natural.
I suppose my definition of cheating would also be injections or surgery.
Agreed. In my fairly significant experience with PED's... they are effective.
They are totally effective. OF COURSE THEY ARE. Yes you have to put the work in, but for a heavily juicing bodybuilder, the work is:
Balancing all of your PEDs Eating the proper amount Getting the correct amount of rest Lifting about 5 days a week and achieving a significant pump
And they are very much in that order. You'd be surprised how huge you can get without paying a ton of attention to your lifting routine. The anabolic cues are so strong that just working the muscle decently and feeding it all the macros that it needs is enough.
It's also not limited to muscle size... that popping, dry, and hard look is only achievable with PED's
Like others, I don't think that PED use in bodybuilding is cheating. I think it's absolutely necessary. Like a helmet is for football.
And I do agree that present or past users have no right to enter a natural contest. The anabolic effects of PED's will persist long after they clear out of your system and cannot be detected. It's why - seriously - most professional athletes will try juicing in their off-season.
Check out why: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/steroids-...
For me it's cheating if you use PED's and do not openly admit it.
I think that anyone excelling in this sport is usind PED's and then they use their fame to sell products, promote the industry, training programs and so on. But they will never admit that between supplements, diet, the right training equipment, it is the PED'S that played the main role in achieving the amount of muscles that they've built.
To 'cheat' is 'fraud' or as some would have it, 'to swindle'. The general idea being that a bad actor (fraudster) deprives another of something deemed valuable by coercion or false statements/shaky proofs.
For me it's cheating if you use PED's and do not openly admit it.
You're entitled to that opinion, but - as with most things in life - fuck that shit. I actually think you're joking with the readers, but upon what basis are you making the argument that anything, EVER, must be "openly admitted".
I think that anyone excelling in this sport is using PED's and then they use their fame to sell products, promote the industry, training programs and so on. But they will never admit that between supplements, diet, the right training equipment, it is the PED'S that played the main role in achieving the amount of muscles that they've built.
Come visit the U.S., my friend - the job is to sell.
So many people have a flawed mindset. PEDs can only enhance the work that has already been done. A person taking anabolics without training much is not developing a "product-selling" physique. A person taking anabolics without doing the work in the kitchen is not developing a "product-selling" physique. So no, even though you're entitled to your opinion and belief set, your opinion is wrong.
i'd like to enter this: where is the cheat?
if they're using and competing, everyone uses. i dont' care about that.
once again, it's cheating those that follow them or look to them for expertise. "Do you want delts like this?"
heck yeah, but you didn't tell me i had to jump on var AND test weekly for 5 weeks to get there.
Competing in a division that is explicitly for natural competitors when you are currently using or have used PEDs is cheating. There are plenty of untested federations out there, but to go to a natural comp simply because you know you have a better chance of winning is bullshit and makes you a shitty person.
Agreed 100%
i'd like to enter this: where is the cheat?
if they're using and competing, everyone uses. i dont' care about that.
once again, it's cheating those that follow them or look to them for expertise. "Do you want delts like this?"
heck yeah, but you didn't tell me i had to jump on var AND test weekly for 5 weeks to get there.
Yeah fp909, exactly the point I was trying to make.
Come visit the U.S., my friend - the job is to sell.
Selling yes - but not by using false claims.
So many people have a flawed mindset. PEDs can only enhance the work that has already been done.
This is always the argument of PED users. Yes, there's still work to be done, but nobody is saying that there is not. It's just not enough to put in work to achieve the physique they have, that's the catch. Also the amount of work and commitment you have to invest can be significally reduced when you are ready to play with your health and life expectancy and go for those PED's.
I really don't care if she's cheating. I know a lot of people on here (maybe the majority) like the look that only cheating can get you. Whether it's super beefy or absolutely cartoon ripped (no judgement: you can't help what you like). But I'm more of the fitness model type, or a regular girl with thickish arms where you can't really tell unless you're looking for it or she flexes. How she gets to that point is none of my business.
Selling yes - but not by using false claims.
This is always the argument of PED users. Yes, there's still work to be done, but nobody is saying that there is not. It's just not enough to put in work to achieve the physique they have, that's the catch. Also the amount of work and commitment you have to invest can be significally reduced when you are ready to play with your health and life expectancy and go for those PED's.
Two quick notes that I'd like to add.
1) PED's really will put a ton of well conditioned muscle onto you, but getting a true champion physique is an unbelievable amount of work and dedication. And of course genetics.
Hopefully, we can all agree that Dwayne Johnson isn't natural? He's huge by any objective measure, but it would take a ton of work and pivoting for him to win a bodybuilding contest on the merits of his physique alone.
2) I'm old enough to remember thumbing through muscle magazine and reading the bulls***t ads for crap like Cybergenics and Russian Bear. They were straight up lying about the results of this snake oil and presenting fake testimonials and before/after shots. I bought into all of it, and of course none of it worked.
These days? Cat's out of the bag. There is SO much information about PED's and huge availability of them to anyone with a credit card. The idea that juiced athletes are somehow misleading the young people following them... I really don't buy it. I train at a very serious gym and it's obvious that even younger teenagers are playing with things like SARMS and test. They're not looking at pics of Chris Bumstead and thinking "my bro got so huge just from whey protein and BCAA pills!"
Honestly, I think that this forum has the biggest community of people who are shocked to hear that fitness professionals regularly used PED's. And that's only because not many people on here are seriously lifting. If you're even casually in the scene, it's common knowledge.
3) I disagree that athletes are covering up their PED use due to shame or the intention of deceiving people. They're doing it because it's ILLEGAL (which is absolutely f--ing stupid BTW). If anabolics were legal - like they should be - I'm sure that most athletes would have no problem talking about them.
Cheating is going against agreed upon established rules. Like in a relationship, if you agree or even if there's an implied expectation you won't sleep with other people and you do it anyways... You cheated.
I think in body building or even fitness it's pretty similar... If the rules of a contest say no PEDs, then it's using them is cheating. When it comes to social media... If you claim to not take any PEDs, then you set an expectation that you're being 100% clean... So taking them is cheating. But if you never make that claim or imply it in other ways, then I don't see it as cheating either.
Honestly, I think that this forum has the biggest community of people who are shocked to hear that fitness professionals regularly used PED's. And that's only because not many people on here are seriously lifting. If you're even casually in the scene, it's common knowledge.
The general public is very clueless about how widespread PED usage is. Don't know any actual statistics, but looking through sites such as reddit or quora, 80% of people there are convinced that The Rock and Chris Hemsworth are completely natural and simply "work harder." Then there is a signficant portion of people arguing that all athletes must be natural because "they're all tested." Consider the existence of a person such as Liverking, and the following he was able to generate based on claiming that his physique is built on eating bone marrow and liver. The naiveté is simply limitless.
The impact social media has had on the perception of enhanced physiques cannot be underestimated, either. When your feed is filled with people sporting cobra traps and cannonball delts, and all of them adamantly claim natty, you become desensitized to what actual natural physiques look like. The baseline has gone up to where someone who doesn't look entirely cartoon somehow passes as natural, since "he's not as big as Chris Bumstead."
Of course, on GWM, there is an additional layer of delusion present since many people here are simps that like to engage themselves in fantasies, one of them being that females are perfectly able to put on 20 lbs of lean muscle in four months. Most people use a body part other than their brain when it comes to judging a girl's natty status on here.
People who refuse to believe that dominant huge muscle girls are the future are Macho dummies stuck in the past. You will be treated poorly by your female superiors in the future. Those of us who accept our role in the new female world will be treated better and live with our Queens.
Using synthol or similar substances to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Having cosmetic surgery to artificially alter a "muscle" shape is cheating.
Using anabolics in bodybuilding and bodybuilding-adjacent activities is NOT cheating.
Everyone has the right to draw their line wherever they want, but some of y'all chest-puffers are on fantasy fucking stasi island.