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Many triggers here, lets ban white, black, mature, asian, Israeli, big breast, implants, pec bouncing, lying prone. You never know who will get offended. Even better lets ban all model naming, just post anonymous photos and no tags.
It’s silly to equate these descriptors with the teen tag. Indeed, all the descriptors exist to narrow down features that you prefer to ogle and fantasize over. This is why the teen tag is so potent. This is true especially in light of current ongoing political revelations about teen abuse.
Teen tag should be removed….and if you’re someone who is actually cool with it and are trying to protect or promote it then you need to go as well too, freaking weirdos
Underage girls are banned. It's obvious "teen" refers to 18, 19 (and early 20s) on this site.
But I think OP is right in the sense that people like this guy (@Fitnfunky), especially not members of the site, could see the "teen" tag and go "oh ma gawd PEDOS, stone THEM 1!!!!". I mean, people very recently believed the "Subscribe" button meant the site charges money for the content. This looks far more incriminating in the eyes of the average internet idiot.
@Chainer
To address the idea of renaming the tag to something like "adult teen" or "18-21": The first is redundant, since minors are already not allowed. The second is arbitrary.
How about "teen (18-21)" or "teen (young adult)" or whatever small clarification in parenthesis? This way anyone searching for the already known "teen" tag can get the tag suggestion just as now, but at the same time someone with bad intentions can't just post an inflammatory screenshot on social media saying "disgusting, they have a tag for TEENS, yada yada, PEDOS!!!"
It’s interesting reading the comments that have followed Chainer’s response. They seem to be mixed between having ignored his response and “I’ll ignore the points and continue the crusade anyhow”. Neither which are constructive or helpful.
So as a reminder we already disallow minors (below 18) and some tags will get abused no matter what we do, with some being completely inconsistent. People misjudge age all the time, either for not being a good judge or the person is misrepresenting themselves.
“Teen” (as used on this site) DOES NOT not include minors and this tag has been here since the start. If you do find minors, then please report them, ideally with a source.
As mods we will remove minors whenever they are identified as such, either by us directly noticing or via reports.
Myself, I’m already not a huge fan of subjective tags such as “mature” or “tall”, so “young” would fall into that subjective categorisation. Maybe “teen” isn’t much better, but as a legacy tag with a clearly defined bottom limit, there is no current strong argument to change things. Overly specific tags have other issues that don’t make them good. Heck, we even had some propose “woman” as a tag on the site 😒
Also, as mods we will discuss our thoughts internally, but in the end this site is Chainer’s creation and he has final say. So please consider his arguments before continuing any crusade.
@tamarok I don't think the real debate is how the teen tag is perceived by normal GWM users (OP specifically mentioned this)
OP's point was rather how the same people who believed the site is selling Instagram pictures would see it out of context. They are not going to read your comment here, they are not going to read the site rules.
They might see a post on Instagram with some out of context screenshots such as:
Along with an outraged text saying "!!! THEY POST PICTURES OF UNDERAGE GIRLS AND THEN THEY SEARCH THEM BY THE "TEEN" CATEGORY, DISGUSTING, HERE IS PROOF 😠😠😠 !!!".
It's enough for people to get rage-baited, to like, share, raise the pitchforks. On sensitive topics such as these people don't need much proof in order to cast stones. And whoever asks for further clarification (or tries to defend it) gets labeled as a creep as well (again, see @Fitnfunky's comment above as a prime example).
To expand on simoncop73's point, there also needs to be a serious clean-up on the site's content from the late 2000s/early 2010s.
If you click on the "teen" tag and go to the earliest post, it's an image of Nataliya Kuznetsova when she was below 18. Posted on 2008 when she was born in 1991. That needs to be deleted. It violates the rule of no minors. I am also extremely suspicious of the nearby uploads without a name attached from around 2008–2012 under the "teen" tag. I believe they also must be deleted.
If anything, I think this further justifies the removal of the tag, although of course that also necessitates the deletion of similar uploads to those I described.
I'm not intending to act all high and mighty, but this is a line that should not be permitted.
This whole discussion is hilarious! What a puritanical nuthouse this website became over the years 😂😂😂. Thanks God for the alternative places (like on Discord) where honest men with normal sexuality can go to watch teen muscle girls without getting lectured by tiresome moralizers and wannabe pedo hunters.
This whole discussion is hilarious! What a puritanical nuthouse this website became over the years 😂😂😂. Thanks God for the alternative places (like on Discord) where honest men with normal sexuality can go to watch teen muscle girls without getting lectured by tiresome moralizers and wannabe pedo hunters.
Congratulations on supporting the argument by citing Discord, the platform preferred by pedophiles because it has absolutely NO security measures or common sense.
@tamarok I don't think the real debate is how the teen tag is perceived by normal GWM users (OP specifically mentioned this)
OP's point was rather how the same people who believed the site is selling Instagram pictures would see it out of context. They are not going to read your comment here, they are not going to read the site rules.
They might see a post on Instagram with some out of context screenshots such as:
Along with an outraged text saying "!!! THEY POST PICTURES OF UNDERAGE GIRLS AND THEN THEY SEARCH THEM BY THE "TEEN" CATEGORY, DISGUSTING, HERE IS PROOF 😠😠😠 !!!".
It's enough for people to get rage-baited, to like, share, raise the pitchforks. On sensitive topics such as these people don't need much proof in order to cast stones. And whoever asks for further clarification (or tries to defend it) gets labeled as a creep as well (again, see @Fitnfunky's comment above as a prime example).
To expand on simoncop73's point, there also needs to be a serious clean-up on the site's content from the late 2000s/early 2010s.
If you click on the "teen" tag and go to the earliest post, it's an image of Nataliya Kuznetsova when she was below 18. Posted on 2008 when she was born in 1991. That needs to be deleted. It violates the rule of no minors. I am also extremely suspicious of the nearby uploads without a name attached from around 2008–2012 under the "teen" tag. I believe they also must be deleted.
If anything, I think this further justifies the removal of the tag, although of course that also necessitates the deletion of similar uploads to those I described.
I'm not intending to act all high and mighty, but this is a line that should not be permitted.
Amen to this
If you click on the "teen" tag and go to the earliest post, it's an image of Nataliya Kuznetsova when she was below 18. Posted on 2008 when she was born in 1991. That needs to be deleted. It violates the rule of no minors. I am also extremely suspicious of the nearby uploads without a name attached from around 2008–2012 under the "teen" tag. I believe they also must be deleted.
Did you report it using the report button?
This whole discussion is hilarious! What a puritanical nuthouse this website became over the years 😂😂😂. Thanks God for the alternative places (like on Discord) where honest men with normal sexuality can go to watch teen muscle girls without getting lectured by tiresome moralizers and wannabe pedo hunters.
check his hard drive
This whole discussion is hilarious! What a puritanical nuthouse this website became over the years 😂😂😂. Thanks God for the alternative places (like on Discord) where honest men with normal sexuality can go to watch teen muscle girls without getting lectured by tiresome moralizers and wannabe pedo hunters.
FBI, open up
@tamarok I don't think the real debate is how the teen tag is perceived by normal GWM users (OP specifically mentioned this)
OP's point was rather how the same people who believed the site is selling Instagram pictures would see it out of context. They are not going to read your comment here, they are not going to read the site rules.
They might see a post on Instagram with some out of context screenshots such as:
Along with an outraged text saying "!!! THEY POST PICTURES OF UNDERAGE GIRLS AND THEN THEY SEARCH THEM BY THE "TEEN" CATEGORY, DISGUSTING, HERE IS PROOF 😠😠😠 !!!".
It's enough for people to get rage-baited, to like, share, raise the pitchforks. On sensitive topics such as these people don't need much proof in order to cast stones. And whoever asks for further clarification (or tries to defend it) gets labeled as a creep as well (again, see @Fitnfunky's comment above as a prime example).
Thanks for actually making an argument, unlike many other people in this thread.
The thing is, there's a near infinite number of ways someone antagonistic to the site could take things out of context and use it as ragebait. For instance, I would never in a million years have predicted that the term "Subscribe" would be used to imply we're selling subscriptions, especially since high profile sites like Youtube use this term the same way we use it: you subscribe (for free) to get notifications.
The true problem is the culture of social media-induced mob justice that the internet has devolved into over the past ~15 years but unfortunately we can't do much about that.
For this reason I'm willing to make small changes to the site that plausibly reduce risk, but not the the point that it significantly impacts the usability of the site. Hiding the image comments and some tags behind a login wall are examples of this.
That said, I think the "teen" tag could be renamed. I think "teen (young adult)" as you have proposed is a good contender. I like the use of "teen" which has a specific, non-arbitrary meaning. Just "young" or "young adult" by itself is vague (tbf the "mature" tag has the same problem), and if we specify an age range like "young (18-21)" or 18-25 the obvious question is, why that particular range? Plus then we'd want to do the same for "mature".
I think there's nothing wrong with categorizing photos by age group, as 18-21, 18-25, 35+, 60+ or any other age group. In my humble opinion, it's an interesting and useful way to group promising young athletes in this sport, equivalent to something like a "junior category" over 18 obliovsly. This is something that's done in every other sport in the world. There are categories such as under 21, under 18, juniores, students, masters, over 35, over 50, etc. As we know, in bodybuilding itself, there are over 35s, over 50s, over 60s, etc. The same applies, for example, to height categories, as is done in physique and figure competitions, where there are Talls and Shorts, and so on. So I think that including a possible 18/21 or 18/25 category could be considered as the equivalent of a national under-21 football team players category or any other sport.
If you're "reducing risk" presumably to outside misinterpretation, malicious or not, then surely "young 18-21" unambiguously excludes under 18s - the "18-21" part is probably not going to be tagged by users any more or less accurately than the much misused teen was as I went through on the other thread I started . It might be specific and non-arbitrary in theory but it's already being used as nonspecific, arbitrary synonym for "young" not just 18 or 19 year olds. The reason you don't need to set a lower or upper limit for mature is because older women are still adults - it's the boundary of the legal lower age limit that is being declared.
If you're "reducing risk" presumably to outside misinterpretation, malicious or not, then surely "young 18-21" unambiguously excludes under 18s - the "18-21" part is probably not going to be tagged by users any more or less accurately than the much misused teen was as I went through on the other thread I started . It might be specific and non-arbitrary in theory but it's already being used as nonspecific, arbitrary synonym for "young" not just 18 or 19 year olds. The reason you don't need to set a lower or upper limit for mature is because older women are still adults - it's the boundary of the legal lower age limit that is being declared.
It does, but how many people are actually checking ages? The challenge is you don't want a vague tag, but you also don't want one where the number of people getting it right are in the single digits.
The suggested tag alternatives are all going to have identifiable shortcomings. The best we can hope to accomplish is to minimize possible problems.
There's other ways to represent that age group implicitly with reasonable public image management:
That implicitly indicates the 18/25 age group without directly saying it. By saying "College Aged", it's not saying they necessarily attend a college, just that they're in that age typical age group. Are there prodigal Doogie Howser types that attend college? Sure, but it's far less suggestive of minors than saying "teen". Are there late bloomers that attend college in their 30s? Sure. But "College Aged" might help shift thinking from "Looks passable as" to "Within this typical age group".
Obviously there's no guarantees, and there might be other tag alternatives that implicitly guide people to applying the correct age group.
Also, "College Aged" would help reduce another common grievance I frequently see about the "teen" tag, that "The model is too old for that tag".
Why does an age need to be specified? Wouldn't "young adult" work on its own? I agree with other comments, "teen" is creepy and it paints an unnecessary target on the site, especially in this era of reawakened western puritanism. All it takes is some nutty anti-porn zealot to set her sights on gwm... before you know it, we're in a Guardian article. Don't give the crazies any ammunition. "Young adult" is semantically similar to the original tag and it reinforces that all women on the site are 18+.
It does, but how many people are actually checking ages? The challenge is you don't want a vague tag, but you also don't want one where the number of people getting it right are in the single digits.
That's my point. Which I started the earlier thread about. How many currently are correctly posting only 18/19 year olds in the teen tag? A two year window of accuracy? Many are older and those younger should not be here and are removed when posted or reported. It's an imperfect world. Given that posters' are not going to make much effort.
"Young adult" as suggested? Adult in different jurisdictions differs - 18 or 21? So you are back to specifying at least a lower age limit.
Why does an age need to be specified? Wouldn't "young adult" work on its own? I agree with other comments, "teen" is creepy and it paints an unnecessary target on the site, especially in this era of reawakened western puritanism. All it takes is some nutty anti-porn zealot to set her sights on gwm... before you know it, we're in a Guardian article. Don't give the crazies any ammunition. "Young adult" is semantically similar to the original tag and it reinforces that all women on the site are 18+.
As "Seeman" has aptly demonstrated, even "Young Adult" or "Adult Teen" aren't necessarily safe. Whether driven by bad faith ulterior motives, religious doctrine, or other countries where the "legal age of consent" can be under 18. You choose exactly the correct word: "semantics".
Just to be clear, this reply is not in criticism of you or your suggestion. I'm in agreement with your points.
This really is a rats nest of a topic to try navigating ethically. One of the avenues to that end is exploring both potential solutions and any potential vulnerabilities. In this case, the potential vulnerabilities I mentioned apply to far more than only your suggestion. Rather, because you said "semantically", that's what made me think of it.
I 100% agree that within the climate of the website a few weeks ago, it’s 100% valid for the teen tag to question. This website already gets crazy confusion and mix up all the times and i genuinely feel like this is an easy one that can be fixed but also one that can be take way out of proportion from people unfamiliar with this website. Even if it’s just a small change to the name
Did you report it using the report button?
Yes, I did. Given what users like simoncop73 have brought up, I thinks it’s really undeniable to delete the tag.
What do you think of the term "novice" or "novice 18/21" or "novice 18/25" or whatever you prefer? Which is actually the term used in official competition categories. In fact: Novice, Masters 35+, 45+, 55+, etc.
Teen tag should be removed….and if you’re someone who is actually cool with it and are trying to protect or promote it then you need to go as well too, freaking weirdos