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> > Except you apparently do give AF what the day is called else you wouldn't have made that your "outrage" example in all caps no less. Just stick to girls with muscle and the assumed sexualities of people who follow them.
I promise you that I don’t care. Honestly I intended it to be a joke, but it’s somehow even funnier that it triggered you.
Sure and in summary… I don’t think it’s gay in any way to like muscular women.
Depending on how big or virilized she is… it’s definitely kinky and unique. Still not gay.
Having a stance on a holiday, like a stance on same-sex couples being homosexual, isn't "triggering". My mistake was feeding a troll.
Although.. question for bat22 and BBX99
Melissa Brodsky (who's amazing) was on the famously awful "Whatever" podcast recently.
Now, we know Melissa is 100% female and always has been. But if you wade through the comments here, you'll see that about 1/3 of them (upwards of 1500 comments) are accusing her of "being a man." Or saying "that's a dude."
https://www.instagram.com/p/DRAnOdUjXDT/?hl=en
Obviously, people with refined tastes like us know how buff women look and sound.
But if a huge part of the population thinks that Melissa Brodsky is trans (and believe me, they do), does that make it gay for a guy to be attracted to her?
Or is it not gay because he KNOWS that Melissa was born a woman, even if plenty of other people will never believe it.
What if he doesn't know Melissa at all? What if he sees her for the very first time and thinks "wow, she's hot." Could that be gay?
As I've seen with a few other trans proponents, you're trying to make an argument valid by how fooled or misinformed a person is. To sidestep, I've been mistaken for Hispanic numerous times, doesn't mean I am Hispanic. If I were adopted with no knowledge of my bloodline, maybe I'd believe I was Hispanic; doesn't mean I am Hispanic.
A man attracted to Melissa thinking she was a trans female might consider that a gay crush, the way some people would say that there's a celebrity they'd go gay for. Knowing that Melissa is a female on gear, the man then knows that he's crushing on a geared-up female.
^^ So I'm not a trans proponent as much as I am a libertarian who believes in freedom of expression and appearance. I'm definitely not a liberal.
But if you're open to it, I'd like to explore this further.
Let's say that there's a man named Pete, and he doesn't know much about bodybuilding or women's athletics.
He's one of the many thousands of men who view that clip and think that it's likely that Melissa Brodsky was born male.
(This isn't a crazy leap, if you ever speak to an FBB, they'll tell you this happens all the time)
Now lets say that.. Pete... still finds her sexy. He likes her face, her hair, her skin. He's crushing on her, even though the muscles and the voice are suggesting that she's trans. He doesn't know about women on gear and he's never seen a woman like her in person.
Is Pete gay? Do we think that Pete also likes other guys? Being gay, maybe he also likes the male host of that podcast?
^^ So I'm not a trans proponent as much as I am a libertarian who believes in freedom of expression and appearance. I'm definitely not a liberal.
But if you're open to it, I'd like to explore this further.
Let's say that there's a man named Pete, and he doesn't know much about bodybuilding or women's athletics.
He's one of the many thousands of men who view that clip and think that it's likely that Melissa Brodsky was born male.
(This isn't a crazy leap, if you ever speak to an FBB, they'll tell you this happens all the time)
Now lets say that.. Pete... still finds her sexy. He likes her face, her hair, her skin. He's crushing on her, even though the muscles and the voice are suggesting that she's trans. He doesn't know about women on gear and he's never seen a woman like her in person.
Is Pete gay? Do we think that Pete also likes other guys? Being gay, maybe he also likes the male host of that podcast?
Of the "many thousands" of men who declare Melissa a male, I'll bet many already figure she's a roided female and are being jerks; and many others who know her muscles didn't come naturally take the extra (but incorrect) leap from her deep voice to presume her male. Some of the latter group might not even make that leap if trans representation wasn't so prominent in today's age from trans Olympians to trans kids.
Sounds to me like you're pigeonholing Pete to reach a particular conclusion, as if Pete emerged underage from a Fallout vault. In the real world, Pete could easily learn why women have particular presentations in the fields of athletics and bodybuilding. It's also a stretch to think that Pete has been educated on trans folk and their transitioning process, but he's somehow utterly ignorant of the virilizing side effects of substances on fitness women and FBBs?
Some of the latter group might not even make that leap if trans representation wasn't so prominent in today's age from trans Olympians to trans kids.
I totally agree with this. When it comes to women with deep male-adjacent voices and large, male-adjacent muscle mass, the more common reference point is trans women than girls on steroids.
It's also a stretch to think that Pete has been educated on trans folk and their transitioning process, but he's somehow utterly ignorant of the virilizing side effects of substances on fitness women and FBBs?
Unequivocally yes. I think that the average person on the street is totally ignorant of the virilizing effects of androgenic steroids on women. Again - if you speak to actual FBB's you'll hear that they are constantly misgendered as male in public, at least when they are on prep and leaning out.
I'll bet many already figure she's a roided female and are being jerks
No way to prove it either way, but I sincerely doubt it. They believe what they're writing. It's actually incredible how stupid so much of humanity is. And how averse people can be to any kind of critical thought.
My point here isn't to have a trans debate with the usual suspects.
The point is that human sexuality is complicated, and sexual arousals and interests to do not necessarily correlate with orientation.
There's a temptation to think that homosexual behavior is hard-coded into our DNA and that a heterosexual man will always be disgusted by any kind of homosexual act. This might make some insecure or very religious men sleep better at night, but it flies in the face of all of human history.
A great place to start reading about this is "situational homosexuality," which is same-sex sexual behavior that is a product of a specific environment, rather than a permanent sexual orientation. You see this in prisons, boarding schools, religious environments, and the military. And the "bottoms" in these scenarios often play a weaker, feminine role.
These men in question indulge in homosexual acts for self gratification, but would most likely only choose a woman for a relationship. And are therefore heterosexual in their orientation.
Strong muscular women are still women, so the act of being attracted to them is heterosexual. However, they invert the traditional gender roles of muscle and physical strength, so lots of people will consider then masculine, and consider liking them as "gay."
It's not worth denying that Melissa Brodsky has some extremely male characteristics. And finding her sexy is not a majority position for hetero men. But that doesn't make us gay, because attraction and orientation is not a strict binary.
It's not worth denying that Melissa Brodsky has some extremely male characteristics. And finding her sexy is not a majority position for hetero men. But that doesn't make us gay, because attraction and orientation is not a strict binary.
In some worlds, if you're not attracted to Melissa, you're gay. But also, I don't give a shit that you're gay.
In some other worlds, if you're not attracted to Melissa, you're simply...not attracted to Melissa. You're not gay - she's just not your cup of tea.
Personalizing it a bit, lots of men my age lusted after Helen Hunt back in the 90s, but I never found Helen attractive at all, even though I loved Jodie Foster, who IS gay.
You just like what you like. And Melissa Brodsky is hot af.
this hasn't do with what you guys are talking about but some kid in high school apparently found out I would read Muscle and Fitness (which I would see if there are any muscle chicks in it but later would read the workout articles) and call me gay. I confronted him about it but he denied saying anything. So according to him it's gay to look at athletic and muscle people and read fitness magazines. I can't imagine what that jerk would say if he saw some one like Melissa Brodsky in high school.
In some worlds, if you're not attracted to Melissa, you're gay. But also, I don't give a shit that you're gay.
What world? Which world exactly says "if you're not attracted to Melissa, you're gay?"
Also worth noting that, despite gay men being into big muscles, you'd have to work hard AF to find a single gay guy who likes female bodybuilders. In fact, some of the most misogynistic FBB haters that I know are gay lifters.
If there is a gay man out there who likes FBB's because of their muscles/voice/jawline/etc then I have never met one, never heard about one, nor have I ever seen any evidence of one.
Without getting scientific, I am a straight male and am married to a woman who I have children with. She’s not “fit” or “athletic” and certainly won’t have pictures on this website. She’s a curvy, attractive woman and as she ages, her curves accentuate even more so. She still drives me crazy and I am very much attracted to her all of the time. I’ve never been with a “fit” woman in my life and have pretty much dated the same type of “normal” type of women my whole life.
With that being said, I have been wildly attracted to female muscles for as long as I can remember. The bigger the better for me. It was just my thing, and still is. I haven’t told many people about it, not for fear of being ostracized, but because it’s nobody’s business but my own. I am still very much attracted to “normal” women. I have never been attracted to men in any capacity. While yes, there are some women that push the boundaries of looking like a man, the fact remains to me, that they are still a woman and they just look different than that of a male bodybuilder. It’s hard to describe, but I see a man with big muscles and it’s just a guy with big muscles or whatever. I see a woman with muscles and it just seems feminine to me. Looks feminine. Different than that of a male bodybuilder. Hard to put a finger on it.
So from my experience, liking muscular women does make you gay. Being gay makes you gay. People who say otherwise in an effort to put people down are just bullies.
Source: me, a non-gay straight man who likes girls with really big biceps.
Edit: to include a video I just saw of Michelle Moon that was recently posted.
What about that is manly?
I totally agree with this. When it comes to women with deep male-adjacent voices and large, male-adjacent muscle mass, the more common reference point is trans women than girls on steroids.
I wouldn't go that far. If a woman has an extra-deep voice, while looking jacked to the gills, steroids will still be seen as the more likely culprit and she'll be mocked as manly. It's been a rag as far back as the "Date Night" episode of Entourage (2004) and the East German Women's Olympic Team in Top Secret! (1984).
Unequivocally yes. I think that the average person on the street is totally ignorant of the virilizing effects of androgenic steroids on women. Again - if you speak to actual FBB's you'll hear that they are constantly misgendered as male in public, at least when they are on prep and leaning out.
Except that the misgendering can be by mistake or on purpose to hurt these women, and the latter is more likely because people frowning on steroid use has been around well before the current identity-politicking trans movement. Now the haters don't just get to call them "steroid pigs", they get to mock them as "trans" as well.
I'm going to disagree, even in the realm of Futa. Let me address the muscular woman question first.
Those of us who are attracted to muscles have been attracted to them since DAY ONE. I know I have. I can't explain why. I also can't explain why I love feet, why I don't care about breasts, and why I hate body hair. These are preferences that are hard wired into me.
Yes, really muscular people are usually males. But muscles are a physical attribute which are not exactly connected to gender. And I'll tell you how I know this.
I have a lot of gay friends. Gay guys like muscles, because, of course they do. Lots of them like muscles in the same way that we do. They do muscle worship and get dominated and all that stuff.
You know what they don't like? Muscular women. Not even a little bit, and not even the more masculine and butch girls.
It's because true sexuality is more than just physical attributes, it's an entire gender presentation. There's nothing inherently gay or bisexual about being really attracted to a muscular woman, even a pretty butch one. If you're truly gay or bisexual, you're going to like lots of guys too. There's a huge spectrum of males out there for you to appreciate.
Femboys? Might be a little bisexual. Might just be that guys are horny and kinky. Wanting to play around with one of them could be ascribed to just libido and exploration. Wanting a relationship with one is definitely bi/gay. Think about prison and the sex that happens there. Are the guys in MS13 all latent homosexuals who are just waiting for their opportunity to come out and be their true selves?
LOL hell no. They're horny and a hole is a hole and men have been doing this stuff since the dawn of time. Read about Athens sometime.
Trans women? Lots of people think that being with one is "gay." Before you make this call, take a look at trans men (women who became men). These little dudes have vaginas and would count as "women" in the chromosomes way, but I don't think being with a small buff bald man named Pete is all that straight but that's just me. I'll concede that dating a trans person is pretty heteroflexible.
Futa is a fantasy. It's deviant and kind of crazy. I honestly think it's an exciting way to view a penis along with traditional feminine cues, and that's really it.
futa should be banned. gross
^^ if this was Reddit, then YOU'D be banned for such a low-effort reply. Might be something to look into for the mods.
I wouldn't go that far. If a woman has an extra-deep voice, while looking jacked to the gills, steroids will still be seen as the more likely culprit and she'll be mocked as manly. It's been a rag as far back as the "Date Night" episode of Entourage (2004) and the East German Women's Olympic Team in Top Secret! (1984).
You're showing your age here. Top Secret! about as old now as the end of WWII was when Top Secret! came out.
Also, much of the jokey bro female bodybuilder scenes in shows and movies are over 20 years old... such as Entourage. They're relevant to us because we love jacked women and it was exciting to see them in media. Your average person could give AF though.
Despite their tiny population, trans people and trans athletes are hyper-visible in the public sphere. Because.. as Will Farrell once said.. "it gets the people going."
It's not like there's official stats to quote. My own experience is that the average person - including a huge number of people on GWM - is wholly or mostly ignorant of the prevalance and side effects of steriods. And while AI is not an infallible reference for this, here's what ChatGPT has to say:
Question: When the average person sees a very muscular woman with a deep voice in 2025, are they more likely to think she's trans or she's on steroids?
⭐ So what’s the realistic answer?
Here’s the closest accurate generalization:
Among people with no fitness knowledge:
People tend to notice gendered traits first (voice, physique, clothing, face).
Studies on gender perception show that when someone doesn’t fit expected gender cues, observers may jump to “transgender” as an explanation—not out of malice, but because the brain tries to categorize quickly.
They are more likely to think she’s trans than to think she’s on steroids, simply because they don’t know what PED effects look like.
Among people who train, lift, or follow bodybuilding:
They are far more likely to think she’s a natural muscular woman or a PED-using athlete, not trans.
I don’t know I’ve always been attracted to muscular women since I became aware of their existence. I would say the virilization of a woman doesn’t turn me on in itself, it’s the woman willingly sacrificing some of her feminity for bigger muscles, there is a kind of greed or lust there, that’s the turn on. For it to work she must have feminity to begin with and she must retain a good part of it. Otherwise it just doesn’t work for me. I guess i always assumed that people where into muscular women for the same reasons as me but that is probably not the case. Maybe the people that are into the futa and femboy stuff aren’t gay, but my attraction to muscular women doesn’t flow in that direction.
Agree. I don't mind virilization, because its the idea that a woman wants to achieve a muscular physique so bad that they are willing to do whatever it takes achieve it. But they still need to try to present themselves in a feminine matter
Also worth noting that, despite gay men being into big muscles, you'd have to work hard AF to find a single gay guy who likes female bodybuilders. In fact, some of the most misogynistic FBB haters that I know are gay lifters.
If there is a gay man out there who likes FBB's because of their muscles/voice/jawline/etc then I have never met one, never heard about one, nor have I ever seen any evidence of one.
Thank Athena someone FINALLY considered actual gay men's opinion in this discussion! You know, guys who MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW what's gay and what isn't! Anyone have any data on how trans women feel? Seems like that might be an important viewpoint as well!
Agree. I don't mind virilization, because its the idea that a woman wants to achieve a muscular physique so bad that they are willing to do whatever it takes achieve it. But they still need to try to present themselves in a feminine matter
Couldnt have said it better.
Making a sacrifice means there is something to sacrifice. Only if the woman is completely indifferent about her gender, I would call it a lingering gender transformation rather then a personal improvement.
Thank Athena someone FINALLY considered actual gay men's opinion in this discussion! You know, guys who MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW what's gay and what isn't! Anyone have any data on how trans women feel? Seems like that might be an important viewpoint as well!
Wait, is this you "owning me?" Is this sarcasm?
Honestly I can't tell these days. Surely you're not upset that I'm talking about gay male preferences in a discussion about potential gay homosexual tendencies?
I'm not sure how anyone looks at Melissa Brodsky's face and doesn't think she's beautiful, but I'm also a "different strokes" guy. By any measure, to ME, she's a stunner, but I fully respect not everyone gets down like that.
There are some women who are "too muscular" to be attractive to ME (which was never their goal lol), but Melissa's never going to be on that list.
As I read through this thread and all of the attempted categorizations of people based on their personal tastes, I can’t help but wonder what purpose does it really serve to make this effort? I know this amounts to a sort of “who cares?” kind of response and such responses can and should be discouraged in most cases. However, I think it addresses the OP’s intent to ask the question “what purpose does it serve?” Why do we need to arrive at consensus about whether and to what degree muscularity is a masculine trait, and whether having a masculine trait make a woman “more male,” isn’t this attempting to categorize the objects of our attraction here as more male than other women? What right do we have to do that? And why do we need to? Does it really say anything about us that gives us any insight into ourselves? “Is it gay or is it not gay and to what degree…blah blah blah.” Doesn’t a person do that for themselves? What need do we have for any consensus? I agree with the OP’s judicious use of the word “obsession” in the original question. Anyone can use the lexicon of sexual orientation in any way they want when a man being attracted to a woman is labeled “gay.” This whole argument seems to be an overuse of words to say precious little. Don’t people just like what they like and that’s that? I’d really like to read answers that address the OP’s intent a little more than this modernist attempt to categorize people by their attributes and tastes. The direction that this thread has taken is serving to affirm that there is an obsession but not why that obsession exists.
Wait, is this you "owning me?" Is this sarcasm?
Honestly I can't tell these days. Surely you're not upset that I'm talking about gay male preferences in a discussion about potential gay homosexual tendencies?
NOT AT ALL! MY APOLOGIES IF I GAVE THAT IMPRESSION! I am in complete agreement with you!
Although.. question for bat22 and BBX99
Melissa Brodsky (who's amazing) was on the famously awful "Whatever" podcast recently.
Now, we know Melissa is 100% female and always has been. But if you wade through the comments here, you'll see that about 1/3 of them (upwards of 1500 comments) are accusing her of "being a man." Or saying "that's a dude."
https://www.instagram.com/p/DRAnOdUjXDT/?hl=en
Obviously, people with refined tastes like us know how buff women look and sound.
But if a huge part of the population thinks that Melissa Brodsky is trans (and believe me, they do), does that make it gay for a guy to be attracted to her?
Or is it not gay because he KNOWS that Melissa was born a woman, even if plenty of other people will never believe it.
What if he doesn't know Melissa at all? What if he sees her for the very first time and thinks "wow, she's hot." Could that be gay?