Forum
>
Site Discussion
>
Thread
Log in |
Register
While we appreciate there are challenges with tagging, it’s hard to know of abuses without being informed of them, or accidentally discovering them ourselves. If you have any specific cases of concern, please can you reference them or report them.
Don't moderators have specific edit logs of sorts to help them investigate?
Anyway, people seem very particular about the following tags:
diamond calves
heart-shaped-calves
big round glutes
ass shelf
All aforementioned tags are heavily featured in many of my uploads, which, given my name, should be of no surprise to anyone. Alas, I'm very perceptive and will notice when something's been tampered with, and this has been going on for at least a few weeks now.
Moreover, I recall there being additional calf-specific tags that have since been removed. Mainly ones that were size-focused, such as big calves. Why those tags were removed I cannot say, but their existence helped categorise models more easily.
It's hard to gather if your preferred tags have been removed or other tags added.
What do you mean by "tampered with?"
You should see this thread:
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/...
The tag system is always in flux. It's less of a personal filing system, and more to aggregate image attributes based on community consensus.
Tags that are ambiguous, such as anything with "big" or "small," are always at risk of being merged.
It's hard to gather if your preferred tags have been removed or other tags added.
Removed, but I'm stubbornly adding them back when I notice they're no longer there, so my most recent submissions seem "fine."
What do you mean by "tampered with?"
Just another way of saying removed/edited.
You should see this thread:
I'll take a look. Thanks!
The tag system is always in flux. It's less of a personal filing system, and more to aggregate image attributes based on community consensus.
I understand that very well. It appears as though it's others who don't.
Tags that are ambiguous, such as anything with "big" or "small," are always at risk of being merged.
I see. Don't have much else to add.
Thanks for clarifying.
Final thoughts: if you have a particular image at the center of a "tag war" report it to the mods (just use the orange "report" button) and we'll look into it.
I've removed some tags about hairyness when the subject in question is clearly not.
Removed, but I'm stubbornly adding them back when I notice they're no longer there, so my most recent submissions seem "fine."
As asianfitnessfan indicates please do report situations like this, since we only have history of changes for a specific image, not for images overall. Also, without knowing which tags are involved we can’t decide who is getting it wrong.
As asianfitnessfan indicates please do report situations like this, since we only have history of changes for a specific image, not for images overall.
I've been wary of doing that because I fear there could be a domino effect that would ultimately lead to more problems, but if the phenomenon persists, then I may as well start doing it.
Also, without knowing which tags are involved we can’t decide who is getting it wrong.
But, I did mention the affected tags further up... Or am I misunderstanding you?
But, I did mention the affected tags further up... Or am I misunderstanding you?
I was answering on mobile, and forgot you mentioned them. At the same time without context to any specific image I am not in a position to say yay or nay as to who might have reason.
At the same time, I can see some people feeling they may be unnecessary specific, especially if the basic “glutes” or “calves” aren’t mentioned.
What we don’t want to see is a tag fight of 30 changes long, because two people have a crusade.
Does this sword cut both ways? I don't make an effort of editing tags but I do see a lot of tags that don't belong and have done about 10 corrections. Things like 8 pack when it is 6 or glutes when someone is standing full frontal and showing none.
Legsmasher, which would you consider worse? Tags that don't belong or tags that are missing?
I was answering on mobile, and forgot you mentioned them. At the same time without context to any specific image I am not in a position to say yay or nay as to who might have reason.
No worries. I try to add tags based on a mix of own definitions and community consensus, but as I touched upon earlier, it only takes a few individuals, or even just one single person to make site-wide changes because they have a very fixed taste which they seem to insist everyone else must have as well.
At the same time, I can see some people feeling they may be unnecessary specific, especially if the basic “glutes” or “calves” aren’t mentioned.
Yeah, I can appreciate that, but in these particular cases, the removals have all been retroactive and most likely due to the offended users being subscribed to said tags and making edits right as they pop up in their notifications because of their differing definitions.
What we don’t want to see is a tag fight of 30 changes long, because two people have a crusade.
Hence my apprehension about reporting such squabbles. People can be rather sensitive and defensive.
Legsmasher, which would you consider worse? Tags that don't belong or tags that are missing?
Honestly, I'd prefer if submissions were overtagged rather than undertagged; undertagging benefits no one, whereas overtagging, while annoying to some people, could lead to the discovery of other models one might like, which is nice. That's how I've discovered quite a few favourites.
Do we think the new tagging hierarchy system will help that?
It appears to be doing just that, which is great. It's a change that I'm fully behind.
However, the main reason I'm reopening this thread is because despite frequent dialogue with mods and admins and after what was thought to have been a successful effort from their side, the issue has once again resurfaced, which is unfortunate and frustrating.
Certain individuals really do seem have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that this site only works if the user base treats it with respect and allows for some leeway, and by removing (sabotaging) tags, they're essentially doing damage to not only the site, but to the overall user experience as well. Such behaviour is to the benefit of nobody.
I've thought about how this could be fixed/remedied, and one potential solution that came to mind is making tags removable by the uploader and mods/admins only. Other users would still be able to add missing tags and whatnot, but not remove them. I understand that his may spawn new problems, but it could be worth an attempt.
The tagging system is reliant on good faith self governance. The push and pull tug-of-war between under tagging and over tagging has generally found equilibrium as each image "matures".
The ability to remove inappropriate tags is equally important as the ability to add appropriate tags.
If, for example, you search for black and white photos only, there will inevitably be colored photos mixed in. In such instances, the inappropriate tags should be removed.
There's no assurance that just because someone is the uploader means their tags will all be appropriate or in good faith.
The only people with final say are the mods. That's why they have elevated privileges. The rest of us help keep each other honest because while bad actors exist, on the whole, though opinions will inevitably differ, the majority are tagging in good faith.
The tagging hierarchy system is so new the paint is still drying. Only time will tell if additional interventions are needed.
For now, I say "Steady as she goes, maties!! Yarrr!!"
You make some excellent points. I have virtually zero counter-arguments, but that's mainly because I've already considered the many implications of implementing my "suggested" change. It was just an abstract idea, or concept, even.
That said, the issue pertains to tagging as a whole and is not specifically related to the new hierarchy system, which I find works really well. I just wish people would stop acting like children.
Nothing wrong with hashing out ideas. Even in the abstract.
Tagging as a whole, and the new tagging hierarchy system are now effectively one and the same. They only feel separate because it's so new. Once it's been in use long enough, user behaviors will adapt in as-of-yet unforeseen ways... except that the distinction in your mind between tagging as a whole and the tagging hierarchy system will have vanished.
You'll recall that Youtube was once structured sans "Channels". But can you remember the difference without looking it up? I can't.
The best way to not let "children" get to you is to focus on the adults in the room.
I get where you're coming from, and your sage way of thinking resonates with my own trains of thought, but if you'd see the lengthy dialogue I've had with mods and admins then you might understand my frustration a bit better. I'm not saying they're doing a bad job. On the contrary, they've been very helpful and supportive, and I appreciate their time and efforts. Alas, it only takes one determined and persistent user to make a dent in an otherwise flawless machine, so to speak.
We're working it out, and I am being patient. It's just so very tedious having to constantly check your uploads (especially when you have several hundred of them) for alterations and then decide whether it's worth re-tagging them or leave them be.
I get where you're coming from, and your sage way of thinking resonates with my own trains of thought, but if you'd see the lengthy dialogue I've had with mods and admins then you might understand my frustration a bit better. I'm not saying they're doing a bad job. On the contrary, they've been very helpful and supportive, and I appreciate their time and efforts. Alas, it only takes one determined and persistent user to make a dent in an otherwise flawless machine, so to speak.
We're working it out, and I am being patient. It's just so very tedious having to constantly check your uploads (especially when you have several hundred of them) for alterations and then decide whether it's worth re-tagging them or leave them be.
You just shifted the context from generalities to specifics. Since I've read the entire thread, I'm assuming "the lengthy dialogue [you've] had with mods and admins" has been in private and hence unknowable unless shared here. I can't reply to the context of unknowns.
I like to use the saying "You can't hold back the ocean with a paddle"...
Even if it's just you vs one "determined and persistent user" messing up the tags you've put in so much effort to make correct, your adversary isn't that user, it's the control you're seeking to exert over your upload tags. Once you upload and tag, it's not yours anymore. It belongs to Internet at large. This "determined and persistent user" has had the same effect (to you) as being "the ocean" while you feel like "the paddle". But in reality, it's that user who is the paddle and the entire userbase over time as your uploads mature are the ocean. That user, no matter how determined or persistent, cannot enforce those changes over the long haul.
The tagging system is reliant on good faith self governance. The push and pull tug-of-war between under tagging and over tagging has generally found equilibrium as each image "matures".
...
The rest of us help keep each other honest because while bad actors exist, on the whole, though opinions will inevitably differ, the majority are tagging in good faith.
Put more trust in the mods and in the good faith tagging of the majority. Once you upload and tag, let go of your impulse to enforce that your chosen tags aren't changed. That only leads to a vicious cycle of self destructive hyper vigilance.
Humans struggle to conceptualize long spans of time. You're looking at your tags on the basis of day-by-day, week-by-week, month-by-month. Will your vigilance last a year? 5 years? 10? 20? Will the vigilance of the persistent adversary last those?
No. No. And no again. Even the mods will come and go. This website might unexpectedly shutdown in 6 months. The universe is always moving towards entropy (chaos). Accept that, because you'll never be able to impose enough order (as you see it) to overcome the disorder of the universe.
I do understand the psychology and implications regarding my own actions and thought processes. Trust me, I do. I am deeply introspective, and I am very much aware of how detrimental they can be. Despite what I believe to be good intentions, I know how I can come across, which is a constant WIP. Do I have compulsions that I struggle with? Absolutely, and I do work on dealing with them, but this is not really the place to get into that sort of thing. I do have trust in the mods, and reopening this thread was probably a pointless endeavour as things are actively being resolved behind the scenes. I suppose I just wanted to see if others had experienced this issue to a similar degree as I have, and to rant a bit. That's all.
I understand the title may sound ridiculous, but lately, I've found that people are retroactively correcting and removing tags not just on my uploads, but on others' as well. I try to be thorough and descriptive when posting something, and when I spot uploads that are lacking in tags, I try to make it a point to add relevant ones for everyone's sake, but it would seem as if certain individuals take offense to others having different opinions and definitions as to what constitutes X or Y, and as such, decide to make needless alterations that only irritate the community and reduce the likelihood of discovery. People are always going to have different takes on things, and tags are no different, so it should be in everyone's best interest to allow for some leeway, even if you think something isn't quite according to your own standards.