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Agree, I don’t really see a reason politics needs to even be here. If you wanna argue, do it in DMs or something
No internet mudslinging ever gets people to change their opinion; if anything it just makes it worse
> I'd just make a thread about a topic you like and ignore it.
Sure, but I don't wanna waste 15 minutes writing about something I wanna discuss, only for it to get deleted by mods instantly.
By this I mean about Girls With Muscle and ignoring the political posts if they bother you.
2 some people deleted their accounts because they did not want to be on the same site as someone who has the "wrong" opinion. there are a lot of people who appear normal and post great stuff. but they can't handle politics and will self sabotage themselves for the politics
Some time ago I thought this would be a problem, where if I allowed political posts then we'd lose a lot of otherwise good, quality contributors who can't handle it.
My current thinking, however, is that there is an inverse correlation between being a quality contributor and losing your shit when you see a political post you disagree with. So by and large, these people removing themselves from the site is fine with me.
Case in point: This guy (link to posts: one, two, three) who deleted his account with the most recent political thread. Had no uploads, and just a bunch of very mediocre forum posts and image comments. Not a big loss.
Why do people want to have political discussions here? There's plenty of other places for that.
I dunno, I personally don't really, but some other people seem to want to.
This is not the place I want to go to for political discussion. It just distracts from what the site is supposed to be about. I come here in part to get AWAY from politics.
This will be a moot point once I quarantine the political threads into their own forum section that doesn't show up on the front page. At that point you'd have to go out of your way looking for it.
Agree, I don’t really see a reason politics needs to even be here. If you wanna argue, do it in DMs or something
No internet mudslinging ever gets people to change their opinion; if anything it just makes it worse
I agree with you. But I also cannot ignore the fact that these threads that wade into politics are always started by some angry troll leftist. Which always get angry and end up changing the subject with something along the lines of "what about" when called on their "facts".
Idk, I’m a leftist but I’m not a troll and I’m not particularly angry at anyone on this forum. Definitely angry at many people in charge of our country though.
I’ve been enjoying the political discussion over there. I don’t agree with everyone, of course, but some people have been responding in good faith and actually quoting sources and providing receipts.
I think it takes a certain amount of intelligence and emotional maturity to participate in them properly.
Chainer, it's your site mate. You make the final call.
We for the most part, are adults on GWM.
We need to act like that when dealing with people who believe differently.
The politics discussions are welcomed personally, but, not if they just become slinging matches.
Proper discourse yes. Insults no.
Anyway, I like muscled women. ❤️💪😎
As a participant in one of the aforementioned threads, I'll say what I always do: Don't like it? Don't take part in it and don't read it. Or stop reading it and unsubscribe from it if you regret your decision. Simple.
There is no need for mods to "pick a lane". In the last such thread that we had, people were largely civil, a largely good discussion was had, and they just let it die out instead of outright locking it. This totalitarian urge to ban the exchange of ideas when you're opposed to them and the intellectually lazy tendency to keep contentious topics away is one of the reasons we got to this tipping point in the first place.
Chiming in as a mod, political discussions are hard to moderate, since it is hard to decide whether it’s still in the zone where people are having an intellectual discussion, or has devolved into a binary flame war.
Getting the balance is hard, but once it has reached the point of name calling and general closed mindedness, then maybe it’s time to point the participants to Reddit and close the thread?
What is the right balance? Please don’t make this about left vs right, since this is the type of discussion where threads go to die or burn in hell.
What is the right balance? Please don’t make this about left vs right
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I'm simple like that sometimes.
Once it has reached the point of name calling and general closed mindedness, like you said, seems like the moment to take action, I'd say. What makes it even more difficult for mods is the fact that some people will just purposefully shit up the thread with noise like incontinent baboons, with the specific intent of having it shut down. Still on the topic of the most recent discussion of this sort, Chainer had the right call, I believe, when he quarantined/banned the offending posts and let the discussion run its course.
My only question is why there are political posts in a web that uploads muscle girl content? Legit question by the way, im not trolling and sorry, english is not my first language :(
My only question is why there are political posts in a web that uploads muscle girl content? Legit question by the way, im not trolling and sorry, english is not my first language :(
Politics is a big part of the world right now.
Talking about it on a large platform (FB, Insta, Reddit) is often a s**t show because of bots and edgelords and morons.
This place is a niche community. I think it skews a bit more right than left and certainly a lot more male than female, but we have some reasonable thinkers here and it’s interesting to converse with them.
I also don’t understand why a single thread can’t simply have offending posts removed / people banned rather than the entire thing shut down. I enjoyed taking with Conassa & Co.
I’d enjoy it even more after everything that’s happened in the last week lol
What is the right balance? Please don’t make this about left vs right
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I'm simple like that sometimes.
Uh, haha. Got me there. 😅
I also don’t understand why a single thread can’t simply have offending posts removed / people banned rather than the entire thing shut down. I enjoyed taking with Conassa & Co.
I enjoy a good intellectual discussion too. Sometime I also need to censor myself, knowing how some people can be triggered.
The decision will vary and we won't always get it right. The challenge is trying to decide whether it is just one or two comments that are out of line or whether it is the whole thread that has taken itself into the sewers. The challenge with politics and religion is things can get a little too passionate, to the point where people lose perspective. We would rather not interfere unless necessary, but sometimes a thread can't be brought back into the realm of a fair and decent discussion, so we need to act.
Sounds perfectly sensible. And not too difficult to implement, considering we can predict how things will go like clockwork:
Things escalate, with multiple arguments going on at the same time, and then one of three things happens:
a) Thread degenerates into increasingly personal attempts at one-upmanship, forcing mods to lock it b) Things get heated, but a mix of bans and cooler heads prevailing allows it to run its course c) The temperature gets lowered, we all agree to disagree and move on. And then the Second Coming occurs
That said, not locking things outright and allowing these discussions to take place does mean more work for mods, and I appreciate their restraint and forbearance. In the end, a political Chernobyl like Chainer proposes might be the best compromise. Have to admit, I'd look forward to an aughts-style forum section where people can just have it out within reason.
Chainer★:
One thing that I find tiresome about these threads is that very quickly they steer away from the original topic and become a referendum on Trump vs Not Trump, or even more generally Left vs. Right. Maybe if I just blanket allowed all political threads people wouldn't feel like the current thread is their only chance (this month, at least) to really stick it to the opposition, so threads would stay on topic better. This is just speculation though. (If I did do this, it would be in a separate Politics section that wouldn't show up on the front page.)
I've wondered the same. I prefer when threads adhere to the OP's topic. Of course once it strays, getting it back to the original topic is difficult.
I wonder if you might be onto something.
Chainer★:
On the other hand I could ban political topics altogether. Right off the bat this wouldn't work 100% because I'd want to at least allow topics that are directly relevant to the site. But also, banning topics is bad for engagement. Clearly there's some desire for these threads to exist because they stay very active up until they're locked, and if that's what people want to discuss, why would I ban it?
As was already said, I appreciate that it's permitted here. When you were considering creating the off-topic section, you debated if you should permit politics given the increased polarization of the Internet. At the time, I took the position that you shouldn't. But my view has changed. Forums are an older Internet medium that have historically been more civil than social media and its rage-baiting algorithms. It doesn't only poison the discourse (nevermind the bots and astroturfing), but it changes how people interact outside of social media. Whereas discussion at a site not dedicated to politics and with a managed forum can strive to be better.
I've been historically accustomed to off-topic discussions for the 30'ish years I've participated in the femuscle community as phenoms. I understand not everyone is interested in off-topic, but I don't need people here to agree with me to be interested in the exchange. I enjoy more than just female muscle as a topic.
I finally got to read all the posts in the East Wing thread and enjoyed it a great deal. My week went sideways and I missed all the fun, but Muscles_Toez stepped up and did a tremendous job. I'm glad he was so well received. I typically fall back on an academically rigorous citation style. I think you have a more accessible approach.
Forums are an older Internet medium that have historically been more civil than social media and its rage-baiting algorithms. It doesn't only poison the discourse (nevermind the bots and astroturfing), but it changes how people interact outside of social media. Whereas discussion at a site not dedicated to politics and with a managed forum can strive to be better.
I actually enjoyed the thread myself. I guess I'm old enough to remember an internet where fourms weren't always more civil, but people at least had to make their points with more than memes, thus when someone resorted to nothing but name calling, you knew they had lost that battle. Unfortunately forums are few and far between now as everything turns into AI garbage Facebook social media. I participate in a couple of other hobby-based forums and as I mentioned, the slightest hint of current events will lock a thread.
Another nice thing about this site is that it attracts people with viewpoints from all over the world.. a good opportunity to learn something if you keep your mind open. Old timey forums like this also make it much easier to post links and screenshots.
I would have posted this one if the thread were still going because the author makes some great points about trade policy. You'll notice that it does offer criticism of Trump policy around the edges (which is fine, I'm not in a cult) but we've been at the other extreme for 70 years, so I'm not going to be too critical that his policy isn't as nuanced as it should be.
https://www.policyarena.org/p/trump-trade-neg...
Forums are an older Internet medium that have historically been more civil than social media and its rage-baiting algorithms. It doesn't only poison the discourse (nevermind the bots and astroturfing), but it changes how people interact outside of social media. Whereas discussion at a site not dedicated to politics and with a managed forum can strive to be better.
I actually enjoyed the thread myself. I guess I'm old enough to remember an internet where fourms weren't always more civil, but people at least had to make their points with more than memes, thus when someone resorted to nothing but name calling, you knew they had lost that battle. Unfortunately forums are few and far between now as everything turns into AI garbage Facebook social media. I participate in a couple of other hobby-based forums and as I mentioned, the slightest hint of current events will lock a thread.
I'm glad you enjoyed the other thread even if it strayed considerably... potentially in part because it strayed. I found it ironic that some thought I was upset about the East Wing. My purpose was the opposite. I know many are upset regardless of their political leanings and rather than a perspective from the Right about not being upset, I was offering a perspective from the Left why not. Although the physical structure changes may endure longer than current policy changes, it's the policy changes that are pressing. Effectively, a building remodel vs large policy issues that directly impact quality of life. I kinda wish my week hadn't prevented me from participating prior to it being locked, but c'est la vie.
In the other thread, you said you're GenX. I am as well which puts us in roughly the same age range (1965 – 1980) and both old enough to remember the beginning of the Internet, to remember Usenet (Alt.Amazon-Women.Admirers aka AAWA for me), Email mailing lists, and the beginnings of the World Wide Web. Yes, I remember all the same Wild West forums, and yes, plenty of uncivil users to mentally filter. They just aren't what I gravitated to personally. While not all forums were civil, it was at least a mixed batch where some were and others weren't. I'm unaware of any social media that is civil... Bluesky might be the closest partly from the algorithms being different, partly from moderation, and partly because a ton of users made the conscious decision to not bring the "Twitter Brained" toxicity (that existed long before Elon took over) with them. Of course, the userbase is much smaller than Twitter which helps too.
Another nice thing about this site is that it attracts people with viewpoints from all over the world.. a good opportunity to learn something if you keep your mind open. Old timey forums like this also make it much easier to post links and screenshots.
"Old timey" Lol. Markdown was only created in 2004 so not quite my idea of old timey even in Internet terms. Sorry, I'm being overly nerdy.
International exposure without actual traveling has always been a benefit of the Internet. I nearly always learn something new. It's also always too much to ever hope to know.
I would have posted this one if the thread were still going because the author makes some great points about trade policy. You'll notice that it does offer criticism of Trump policy around the edges (which is fine, I'm not in a cult) but we've been at the other extreme for 70 years, so I'm not going to be too critical that his policy isn't as nuanced as it should be. https://www.policyarena.org/p/trump-trade-neg...
We've already crossed the line into hijacking this thread. In general I try to avoid that, or at least limit it. Also, this is in the "Site Discussion" section, not "Off Topic".
Subsequently, I'll limit my response to asking, the article author is a Canadian-American economist specialized in "Innovation Economics" economic theory. Do you have a particular interest in Innovation economics?
tamarok★:
Please avoid derailing what this thread is about. It would be better to have its own thread, than become off-topic to this one.
...
We've already crossed the line into hijacking this thread. In general I try to avoid that, or at least limit it. Also, this is in the "Site Discussion" section, not "Off Topic".
You posted while I was writing. Didn't see it till after posting mine, but yes, I saw it straying and didn't want to derail things further.
I'll just refrain to avoid further hijacking. I didn't think a new thread on economic policy would be all that popular. One thing about the shock issues like "ballroom" is they get more clicks than "trade policy".
Regarding the age/appearance of the site, 2004 might as well be 1984 when it comes to the internet. But I mean that as a compliment. I'm also one of those people not very interested in purchasing a new car, although I could afford to many times over. A new car doesn't do very much more than a 2004 car except become unserviceable as the miles increase.
Why do people want to have political discussions here? There's plenty of other places for that. Political discussions always end up in a flame war and just make more unnecessary work for the mods.