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For what I know Italy (my country) has an high level mental health care system, both as public system and private professionals. I see you tried different professionals with no exit, but maybe you haven't yet found the best one fitting for your issue. Every ASL or AUSL should have a mental health care center, I advice to ask help to your base doctor about how to move in this area and how to get help. Trust on him/her. Feel free to write me a PM if you want
I had this one in mind for a long time.
Have you ever suffered from depression?
Does your muscle attraction play a role in your mental health?
Any advice or personal experience would be appreciated.
I have been depressed for the past 20 years.
I've tried different medications and therapists, but nothing really helped.
Muscle attraction kinda ruined my life, because it's addicting and prevented me from finding true love.
I was too worried to spoil my relationship with a regular girl, and I sadly opted for out of my league women on a monitor.
I forgot to mention what caused my depression in the first place.
An unfortunate series of deaths in the family, and some bad decisions I've made in my youth.
There's no such thing as out of anyone's league. Right time, right place, anyone can connect with anyone. Get yourself down to a gym with lots of women and get working out regularly and just be friendly and don't creep. Before you know it you'll be connecting with loads of pretty fit women. ๐ I suspect the depression is unrelated. There's a movie by Jonah Hill about his relationship with his shrink. There's some good general advice in there for treating depression and mental health. I hope it all works out brother.
The TLDR; Keep trying therapy/therapists until you find the one that works.
Just want to say I'm not a practitioner of any type, but I've been working for behavioral healthcare companies for...ugh...over 20 years. And I'm married to a therapist, so I'd like to think I have some decent insight through her. Nor am I in Italy, so I can't speak to offerings there.
Therapy isn't cookie cutter. It comes in many different "flavors". SE, FSL, EMDR, DBT...just to name a few. Sometimes it can take some trial and error to find the style that works for you.
That goes for the therapist as well. You don't click with who you saw or are seeing, no big deal. Voice your concerns, ask if they can recommend someone else, or look for one that practices different modalities. Any therapist worth their weight should be open to guiding you, as their end goal should be your health.
Therapy comes in all shapes. Personal 1:1, group, inpatient, residential, outpatient (even this comes in different flavors).
Where I work, we offer residential, which is inpatient, you live at our facility for 8 weeks, have free roam, but remain at our facility. We have workshops, equine therapy, locked door inpatient (you don't leave until we feel you're safe), numerous outpatient options (IOP where you come in daily for 4-6hrs of various therapies or PHP where you come in daily for upwards of 8hrs.). We even have dedicated sex addiction facilities.
Meds are the same. Finding the right medication or combination of meds can take some effort.
My point is, don't stop trying. With virtual therapy exploding post-COVID, you should have plenty of options.
You must cultivate your appreciation of normal bodies as well as outliers. If youโre only attracted to the most extreme bodies then you need to broaden your palette.
Try to see the charisma of people who are in your league. Shape isnโt everything, thereโs also skill, coordination, humour, scent, intellect, style etc.
Thank you very much for all your answers!
@AlbAva Free encounters are too sporadic due to long waiting times.
@grislyb I go to the gym 3 times a week, but I struggle with social interactions (AvPD?)
You're right the depression isn't related.
I had a gf when I was 20, and some family members forced me to split, because she was from an African country.
That's when my depression got to the point of no return.
She wasn't muscular, but she was the right one. ๐ข
@twiztid
Thank you for all these info
In the US (I guess) you have many more options, but I'll try my best to "survive" here.
@Kubrickfan1001
I like normal bodies too, but I'm really shy and awkward with ladies.
I totally agree with you about skills and pros.
You have to find someone special, not just a good-looker.
Thank you very much for all your answers!
@AlbAva Free encounters are too sporadic due to long waiting times.
@grislyb I go to the gym 3 times a week, but I struggle with social interactions (AvPD?)
You're right the depression isn't related.
I had a gf when I was 20, and some family members forced me to split, because she was from an African country.
That's when my depression got to the point of no return.
She wasn't muscular, but she was the right one. ๐ข
@twiztid
Thank you for all these info
In the US (I guess) you have many more options, but I'll try my best to "survive" here.
@Kubrickfan1001
I like normal bodies too, but I'm really shy and awkward with ladies.
I totally agree with you about skills and pros.
You have to find someone special, not just a good-looker.
Sounds like you'd benefit from some psychotherapy. If you don't have much money there are charities that offer it at discounted rates or free. Most 'expensive' therapists also usually have a couple of people they see on a concessionary basis, so it's always worth asking. But it's important to pay something so you're invested in it and don't take it for granted. If I was you I'd go back after the African girl and ignore my family. Pursue what makes you happy, stop putting what others want ahead of what you want for yourself. ๐
Sounds like you'd benefit from some psychotherapy. If you don't have much money there are charities that offer it at discounted rates or free. Most 'expensive' therapists also usually have a couple of people they see on a concessionary basis, so it's always worth asking. But it's important to pay something so you're invested in it and don't take it for granted. If I was you I'd go back after the African girl and ignore my family. Pursue what makes you happy, stop putting what others want ahead of what you want for yourself. ๐
Thank you so much for your suggestions
I wish I could go back and do the right thing.
I was too young and manipulable. ๐
I don't know your age or age range which might influence what I would say here, but you've already had plenty of feedback regarding therapy.
I fully agree with grislyb and I echo his sentiment that there's no such thing as anyone being out of anyone else's league.
phenoms:
That's an excerpt from another reply I wrote. I suggest clicking through and reading my entire reply there as well. I suspect you will find other ideas that apply to you. Take the parts that apply to you and disregard those which don't.
I can tell you from personal experience, that I've lost count of the times some shallow idiot (mostly guys) has talked shit because they coveted a woman that liked me or that was with me. To be clear, I don't want me saying that to come across like I'm some irresistible ladies man. I'm not. I go about my life, I stay true to who I am, and sometimes I meet a woman that finds me attractive.
I'll bet that it's happened to you as well. You may simply have not recognized it.
You mentioned AvPD. I don't know if you're speculating, or if that's something that a therapist has said. Some therapists will say "traits of XYZ" hence avoiding any formal diagnosis and instead choosing to straddle a rather irresponsible fence. I don't know if any of those scenarios fit you, but AvPD can make it difficult to feel accepted or wanted, meaning you can have a woman throwing herself at you and still not believe that she's being genuine. If that fits you, it's a cruel way to go through life. You don't deserve that. You DO deserve to be loved, and you ARE loveable. The African woman shows that you've recognized that you can be valued at least once. Make those feelings with her a template to help guide and inform you.
Even if you have full AvPD, according to the therapy profession, it's possible for a person with a personality disorder to change their behaviors to mitigate the impact of divergent thinking that is otherwise harmful. Obviously, it's a ton of unending work and easier said than done, but is possible with guidance and commitment to daily practice.
I've found that even if I don't believe/recognize/trust that a woman is attracted to me, that it's best to behave with acceptance regardless of doubts.
Rather than risking the hurt of rejection which is a big deal for anyone with AvPD, stay detached and treat it as a social experiment. Instead of aiming for romance, aim first for social interaction that you can use to gain experience from. You'll only improve socially if you have practice practice practice... And if it's a deficit as you say, you may need more practice than others; and that's okay.
* NOTE: AvPD or not, you should almost certainly avoid casual sex. Anyone with issues regarding acceptance/rejection is far more vulnerable to the emotional pitfalls attached to it.
grislyb also touched on working out. In my opinion, that is the most crucial, and least emphasized necessity for everyone; particularly so for anyone with mental health struggles.
I don't say this in relation to any of the superficial reasons the fitness industry pushes. That's completely the wrong emphasis. Exercise is beneficial for your mental health and mood. If you're already working out 3 days per week, is it consistent? Are you going through the motions or kicking your ass every time? Are you doing progressive overload without ego lifting? Are you also doing steady state cardio? Could you handle increasing your workout frequency to 4 days per week? Etc.
Since you're already working out and still have depression strong enough to warrant raising here, stepping it up is probably necessary. Exercise isn't a quick solution or a total cure-all, and any improvements in mood will likely be so gradual that you won't recognize it without also tracking your mood. But write out for yourself a snapshot of your internal state as things feel now, then commit to going hard for 2 years, write out another snapshot and compare it against the older snapshot. The difference will likely surprise you (in a good way).
I don't know your age or age range which might influence what I would say here, but you've already had plenty of feedback regarding therapy.
I fully agree with grislyb and I echo his sentiment that there's no such thing as anyone being out of anyone else's league.
phenoms:
That's an excerpt from another reply I wrote. I suggest clicking through and reading my entire reply there as well. I suspect you will find other ideas that apply to you. Take the parts that apply to you and disregard those which don't.
I can tell you from personal experience, that I've lost count of the times some shallow idiot (mostly guys) has talked shit because they coveted a woman that liked me or that was with me. To be clear, I don't want me saying that to come across like I'm some irresistible ladies man. I'm not. I go about my life, I stay true to who I am, and sometimes I meet a woman that finds me attractive.
I'll bet that it's happened to you as well. You may simply have not recognized it.
You mentioned AvPD. I don't know if you're speculating, or if that's something that a therapist has said. Some therapists will say "traits of XYZ" hence avoiding any formal diagnosis and instead choosing to straddle a rather irresponsible fence. I don't know if any of those scenarios fit you, but AvPD can make it difficult to feel accepted or wanted, meaning you can have a woman throwing herself at you and still not believe that she's being genuine. If that fits you, it's a cruel way to go through life. You don't deserve that. You DO deserve to be loved, and you ARE loveable. The African woman shows that you've recognized that you can be valued at least once. Make those feelings with her a template to help guide and inform you.
Even if you have full AvPD, according to the therapy profession, it's possible for a person with a personality disorder to change their behaviors to mitigate the impact of divergent thinking that is otherwise harmful. Obviously, it's a ton of unending work and easier said than done, but is possible with guidance and commitment to daily practice.
I've found that even if I don't believe/recognize/trust that a woman is attracted to me, that it's best to behave with acceptance regardless of doubts.
Rather than risking the hurt of rejection which is a big deal for anyone with AvPD, stay detached and treat it as a social experiment. Instead of aiming for romance, aim first for social interaction that you can use to gain experience from. You'll only improve socially if you have practice practice practice... And if it's a deficit as you say, you may need more practice than others; and that's okay.
* NOTE: AvPD or not, you should almost certainly avoid casual sex. Anyone with issues regarding acceptance/rejection is far more vulnerable to the emotional pitfalls attached to it.
grislyb also touched on working out. In my opinion, that is the most crucial, and least emphasized necessity for everyone; particularly so for anyone with mental health struggles.
I don't say this in relation to any of the superficial reasons the fitness industry pushes. That's completely the wrong emphasis. Exercise is beneficial for your mental health and mood. If you're already working out 3 days per week, is it consistent? Are you going through the motions or kicking your ass every time? Are you doing progressive overload without ego lifting? Are you also doing steady state cardio? Could you handle increasing your workout frequency to 4 days per week? Etc.
Since you're already working out and still have depression strong enough to warrant raising here, stepping it up is probably necessary. Exercise isn't a quick solution or a total cure-all, and any improvements in mood will likely be so gradual that you won't recognize it without also tracking your mood. But write out for yourself a snapshot of your internal state as things feel now, then commit to going hard for 2 years, write out another snapshot and compare it against the older snapshot. The difference will likely surprise you (in a good way).
I'm 39
I was diagnosed with AvPD, but I kinda knew it even before.
She was the one who broke the ice, but we were long time friends and in the same high school class for five years.
Two girls did the same, but I politely declined.
I never did the first move, because of my anxiety issues.
I do average exercises, nothing extreme or dangerous to avoid injuries.
Honestly, I don't like working out at all, so 3 times is the best I can achieve.
Thank you so much
I really appreciate your help ๐
I'm 39
I was diagnosed with AvPD, but I kinda knew it even before.
She was the one who broke the ice, but we were long time friends and in the same high school class for five years.
Two girls did the same, but I politely declined.
I never did the first move, because of my anxiety issues.
It's good that you know that it's AvPD and yet you're able to acknowledge that 3 women showed interest. Hold onto that. It's VERY hopeful and promising.
Do you know what became of the African woman? Would reaching out be possible? She's someone that already broke through your defenses and you need social connections. If you don't know, don't despair.
Even if you didn't have AvPD, the next thing I would tell you is to focus on activities for yourself that would give you social exposure (yes, we're back to "practice practice practice").
Don't make your goal meeting women. Instead, your objective should be "Exposure Therapy" (you may already be familiar with the term, and perhaps you already do it), and gaining social experience through repetition. Being an introvert, and particularly having AvPD, the preference and reflex is to self isolate. I'm not going to tell you to not isolate if you get hurt and need to heal, but try to limit how long you isolate and try to have certain exceptions that keep you active.
There are things you can do like becoming a volunteer for one or more good causes that are personally important to you. There are social clubs that center around various interests like "makers" that enjoy building and fabrication of various trades like electronics, mechanical, etc. Better yet, try to choose stuff with a mix of men and women.
phenoms:
I do average exercises, nothing extreme or dangerous to avoid injuries.
I would never advocate risking injuries. Average exercises are fine.
Honestly, I don't like working out at all, so 3 times is the best I can achieve.
There are 3 options to approach this, all with the same mindset. The mindset is most crucial:
Three Options
Continue at the gym with the same exercises but increase your intensity by pushing yourself to continue when it gets harder. A great way to do this is with lighter weights, but higher sets/reps. Instead of curling a heavy barbell for 3 sets of 8-12, you can reduce the weight to something that's a challenge to do 3 sets of 15 to 20 reps. You should always be straining/shaking to complete the end of the third set.
Switch to Calisthenics which you can do nearly anywhere, and can do outdoors when the weather isn't raining or snowing which gives you the added benefit of sun exposure for a daily dose of vitamin d... Also fit women tend to be into outdoor activities, so if you're going to the park on a regular basis, you're more likely to meet someone.
Switch to other athletic endeavors. You could switch to CrossFit, Ninja Warrior Obstacle Course training, Martial Arts, Gymnastics, or Yoga / Acro-yoga, etc.
Do not go through the motions or half-ass whatever form of exercise(s) you pursue. It must be regular vigorous exercise. You only get back what you put in, and you need to put in more than what you're currently doing because if your current level of effort was already enough to improve/maintain your mental health, you'd already be doing well enough that you wouldn't have started this thread.
As I said before, exercise isn't a cure-all. But no pill can do what regular vigorous exercise can for your overall well-being.
I failed to elaborate on my reasoning in my first reply about making a two year commitment...
While regular vigorous exercise is the BEST solution, it's not a quick fix. It takes time for your brain chemistry to adjust, and it takes even longer for you to notice the difference. Moreover, it also takes time to build the new habit (yes, you're already exercising, but not vigorously), and it takes even longer to convert a habit into a lifestyle change. If you can commit to two years, you'll attain the full benefits to your mental health and it'll be second nature... You'll also enjoy it. Endorphins are amazing that way.
Thank you so much
I really appreciate your help ๐
You're welcome. I always hope this kind of thread/post is helpful to others that read it as well.
I have no idea where she lives now.
A classmate told me she has moved to a different city, but with no more info.
She changed her phone number and deactivated her e-mail account.
Back in the day, there were not many options.
I've tried to have more public interactions, but I felt like I wasn't myself.
I'm pretty sure, female muscles play a negative role in my depression.
I'm doing my best to stop visiting this site and other platforms, but like all addictions, the more you struggle to get out of it, the deeper you sink.
I really appreciate your workout suggestions.
I'll take note of that.
Thank you so much for your time ๐
To @phenoms: thank you for offering such a compassionate and thoughtful response. I wish we saw more of this here...too many posters seem so eager to tear others down. Thank you.
To @phenoms: thank you for offering such a compassionate and thoughtful response. I wish we saw more of this here...too many posters seem so eager to tear others down. Thank you.
&&
I totally agree with you.
He's a true gentleman.
Thank you both. Nobody afflicted with depression, and more especially nobody with AvPD deserves to endure either. Compassion, in my opinion is the only appropriate approach... including on the Internet where dehumanization has become far too normalized.
I actually have more of a response to offer to gominhos' reply before last but I've been short on time. I'm roughly a decade older, and more importantly know about depression personally. I don't have AvPD, but have certain life experiences I'm able to use to draw parallels from.
I can't hop in a time machine and advise my younger self, but I can offer the benefit of lessons I wish I'd known to others.
Saving the elaborating for later, for now I'll just drive home a vital tenet:
THIS IS NOT AN ADDICTION.
Reframe that thought in your head from this point forwards. It's normal, natural, and ABSOLUTELY acceptable. Being attracted to a certain body type is no different than being attracted to green eyes; and I assure you, green eyes (at only 2% of the population) are far more rare than female muscle.
More soon when I have time.
I think that being able to vent here is already a way forward and it would be great if you could really go to therapy or see a psychiatrist to feel better. In particular, I think it's normal and acceptable for you to desire and be attracted to a specific type of woman. People have their preferences and their particularities. It's sad to conform and behave in a certain way to please the desires of others. I think you can and should be genuine about your preferences. And ask yourself, if you're happy with your preferences, whether you're just afraid of the opinion and judgment of others. This is no demerit and I consider it completely appropriate. Of course, there are other characteristics in a woman that should be desired and that I find important and attractive, such as intelligence and companionship. And non-negotiables like character. I hope that you will experience new situations that will make life lighter for you and that you will be able to withstand life's risks. Life has no guarantees. But I assure you that it's worth taking certain risks in order to lead a fuller life. I wish you all the best =)
Your post and this thread made me think a lot and while my situation differs from yours I do somewhat relate to the mental health part of it. I'm in my mid twenties and have struggled with mental health my whole life due to problems at home and school and because of this and physical problems I never worked and probably won't for some time at least.
So now because of all this and me being a reclusive / isolated (schizoid/depressed) kind of guy I'm left more or less alone in my life and because my attraction is only specific to muscles and doesn't include me with another person or anything sexual I had no real life experiences with sex or realtionships.
Recently though I've been thinking more about how having some kind of "life partner" would probably be a boost for my life (assumed we fit together ofcourse) because in general I feel like having one or more relationship(s) especially over the course of your youth can contribute a fair amount to your development in terms of learning who you are, what you want from life, learn to live and act properly with another person or just socializing in general. Basically your very best friend.
I think I do resent having this fetish and being seemingly asexual otherwise because I feel like it helped to isolate me more and prevented me from making relationship type of experiences, which probably then further contributed to my mental health issues. On the other hand if my social issues stem from something deeper I'm not sure if I would really be happier as a straight person with a real need for relationships or sex instead of now basically being confined to my fantasy. So I guess it could go both ways but I still feel like I'm missing out on quite a lot because of this specific attraction.
Regarding exercise I started like two years ago basically lifting and trying to bulk a bit since I'm very lean and it does help in terms of boosting mood, helping with focus, feeling more balanced afterwards etc. Still struggling to keep it on a schedule though. You say you workout three times a week and in my opinion you should definitely keep doing that but also that you don't like it at all, is it something specific or more in general? Maybe there are ways to make it more attractive to you?
Not sure if this was helpful to you I hope so, writing this was definitely helpful for me ๐๐ป
You're welcome! I also think (as some have already advised) that it's very good to devote yourself to an enjoyable activity or hobby that you've mastered or want to do. It could be reading, learning an instrument, a new sport, a game, anything. It would also be good to find a group of people, a group where you can talk about things you like or get involved in a group activity. Meet new people and new experiences. So that you feel part of something and welcome. Even if it's just group therapy. In particular, I prefer men who are more introspective and shy. I find that charming. I'm sure you'll find someone who likes you in your own way ๐ฎโ๐จโค๏ธ
I donโt know why but I feel guilty for liking muscular woman, and I also feel sad that probably I wonโt meet any woman like those that we see on this site, and itโs more like a biological thing. Anyway something that helps me a lot is praying, I know that this can sound cliche but finding God is the best thing a man can do and this is what has been made me avoid those feelings and addiction. Iโm happy that we are not alone on this, i hope you all the best, and if it helps Iโm going to pray for us.
I had this one in mind for a long time.
Have you ever suffered from depression?
Does your muscle attraction play a role in your mental health?
Any advice or personal experience would be appreciated.
I have been depressed for the past 20 years.
I've tried different medications and therapists, but nothing really helped.
Muscle attraction kinda ruined my life, because it's addicting and prevented me from finding true love.
I was too worried to spoil my relationship with a regular girl, and I sadly opted for out of my league women on a monitor.
I forgot to mention what caused my depression in the first place.
An unfortunate series of deaths in the family, and some bad decisions I've made in my youth.