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A strange question for older people.

Jun 10, 2024 - permalink

I remember going to a place that advertised as L. Scott Sales distributors. I went to the address and it was a regular bookstore kind of place and I said I was looking for an address and mentioned L Scott Sales. The salesman gave a slight "humpf" and reached under the counter and pulled out a box with a bunch of magazines and video tapes in them. I looked through them and felt incredibly embarrassed about how quickly it all happened, and the fact that it was a public place, and just walked out.

Jun 10, 2024 - edited Jun 10, 2024 - permalink

In my experience, there was no large-scale interest in 'Furries' and related items in the 50's/60's/70's/80's...in fact, I don't even think that such was a thing. I have noticed, with the advent of the Internet, that, after 10 years or so and with the commercialisation of various 'things', such 'things' have suddenly exploded on the scene everywhere. I'd guess that the Marketing Engineers have done wondrous things with the gullible.

I sense that what is happening now is a sub-function-effect of the WWW --- causing people to reduce or even avoid contact with others and replace such face-to-face interactions with activities within Silo's or Online Bubbles where people can be fairly personally removed and exist as covert personalities.

Up until the mid-90's, interactions were real. Now interactions are between x-unknown and y-unknown with the interaction of n1 to n-infinity.

fp909
Jun 10, 2024 - permalink

I remember going to a place that advertised as L. Scott Sales distributors. I went to the address and it was a regular bookstore kind of place and I said I was looking for an address and mentioned L Scott Sales. The salesman gave a slight "humpf" and reached under the counter and pulled out a box with a bunch of magazines and video tapes in them. I looked through them and felt incredibly embarrassed about how quickly it all happened, and the fact that it was a public place, and just walked out.

that is wild lmao not even a back room

fp909
Jun 10, 2024 - permalink

In my experience, there was no large-scale interest in 'Furries' and related items in the 50's/60's/70's/80's...in fact, I don't even think that such was a thing. I have noticed, with the advent of the Internet, that, after 10 years or so and with the commercialisation of various 'things', such 'things' have suddenly exploded on the scene everywhere. I'd guess that the Marketing Engineers have done wondrous things with the gullible.

I sense that what is happening now is a sub-function-effect of the WWW --- causing people to reduce or even avoid contact with others and replace such face-to-face interactions with activities within Silo's or Online Bubbles where people can be fairly personally removed and exist as covert personalities.

Up until the mid-90's, interactions were real. Now interactions are between x-unknown and y-unknown with the interaction of n1 to n-infinity.

the anonymity granted by the internet has certainly made people bold. there was a lot more "personal shame" back then because of the risk of something normally reserved for "behind closed doors" could become really stigmatic. it wasn't even just sexual stuff. i remember how other kids used to talk about other people's parents who were getting divorced, or something like that. There was certainly a measure of not participating in parts of people's lives involuntarily, and now people will post that kind of stuff online for views.

im sure people went to great lengths (aka drive far enough out of town they were unlikely to run into anyone) to get a hold of stuff in person. heck, i had an uncle in massachusetts that used to drive an hour to new hampshire to buy cigs without the state tax.

Jun 10, 2024 - edited Jun 10, 2024 - permalink

Oh ho ho I agree Fp909 and had an uncle just like yours, only it wasn't cigs but something else.

I do remember growing up in suburbia and there were no divorces --- at least, as far as we kids knew. I didn't meet a person that had been involved in a divorce until, hmmmm, I'd say 1979 or maybe even 1981.

And yes, people now are much bolder...at least on the WWW.

fp909
Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

it was rare, but people definitely knew about it. or you knew who had the worst parents (or strictest) or the worst houses to hang out at (usually the most boring, so at that time no nintendo or playstation)

i don't know what's worse tbh, a rumor spreading like wildfire and everyone would just give you weird looks, or having everyone know it on the net and its just part of your life so you can get over it unless it's truly awful.

Jun 11, 2024 - edited Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

You are right Fp909 --- divorce back in the early 60's did happen but seemed rare. I think that we kids were insulated from that knowledge by the adults avoiding all talk about such things in our presence. The active cone-of-silence even extended to the elementary school and the playground. Divorce / Marital Violence was there but we kids knew little to nothing of it. When I look back at that time and place, it all seems to have been something akin to The Waltons or The Brady Bunch in many ways. Almost unreal.

And yes, we were aware of the Strict Parents or the Strange Parents: our area was mainly populated with very recent immigrants from Europe whom had all experienced the horrors of WWII. Most were Dutch but there were Belgians, Germans, Poles, lots of Estonians / Latvians and even Czecks. The kids all played together and learned all about the various cultural things each of us brought to the baseball field. It was an interesting time.

The biggest things that impacted us kids back then was (1) Seeing President Kennedy being shot during the parade [it was on TV live] and (2) The Cuban Missile Crisis and (3) The endless coverage of the Vietnam War with Walter Cronkite who never seemed to sleep.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

I remember seeing an episode of Real People when I was 14 or so. Cammie Lusko. I was immensely turned on and kept my eye out for it. Then one day I saw a copy of Women's Physique World at a newsstand and was hooked. As soon as the internet came along (Mosaic in 1995 or so) I immediately sought out FBB. The first porn was in the form of tapes, with such giants as Carina Thompson and Karla Nelson. Hardcore FBB sex wasn't available at all until pretty recently, the last decade or so. I never went for sessions, preferring to keep my fantasy as fantasy.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

I remember seeing an episode of Real People when I was 14 or so. Cammie Lusko. I was immensely turned on and kept my eye out for it. Then one day I saw a copy of Women's Physique World at a newsstand and was hooked. As soon as the internet came along (Mosaic in 1995 or so) I immediately sought out FBB. The first porn was in the form of tapes, with such giants as Carina Thompson and Karla Nelson. Hardcore FBB sex wasn't available at all until pretty recently, the last decade or so. I never went for sessions, preferring to keep my fantasy as fantasy.

My personal experience re., FBB's is much the same as yours Untrgr8. And I too do not see it as a 'fetish' but as 'fantasy'.

Jun 11, 2024 - edited Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

Being infatuated with muscles on girls/women, for as long as I can remember, I hid my secret for many years. As an older guy, back in my youth, I would have been branded a weirdo, if I told people I loved muscular females!!!

Due to what I deemed definitely, an unusual taste in females, I did actually wonder about other possible fetishes...I do hate that word. I consider my deep attraction to strong, muscular women as just that, "A strong attraction and extreme sexual stimuli".

I thought of my femuscle desires less odd, as I discovered some men were into overly obese women, foot fetishes, hairy armpits and other unusual attractions. How can I feel weird about liking athletic, strong women, who also happened to have muscles, when some men were only turned on by fat women?

Older guys like myself struggled even finding a girl with muscles, in our younger years. One of my worst wake up calls happened in Yosemite National Park, when I was 18 or 19. There was a blonde girl, around my age, with thick, muscular arms, named Becky.

I couldn't believe my luck, when I found out she was into me and flirted constantly. We were sitting near a stream and began making out. As I was kissing her my hand immediately started exploring her right arm. My touch drawn to her muscles like a magnet. I couldn't stop squeezing along her arm, eventually making my way around to her biceps area.

She wasn't even flexing but her developed biceps hardened with every movement, she made. As I squeezed, I was thinking, wow, that feels amazing. Suddenly she pulled away and asked, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! Not realizing what her reaction might be, I told her how hot her arms were. She gave me a look I will never forget and said flat out, you are a weirdo!!!! Her insult caught me completely off guard. She rejected me after that. Perhaps she was embarrassed in that era to have such developed arms but I did just compliment her, so WTF!

Such was life, for us older guys. We grew up when muscles on females was not only rare but admitting we liked it would have branded us as weirdos. Most girls thought of having muscles as a curse way back then. Other fetishes or attractions, like a fat fetish seemed so much more odd to me.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

Great story Luvembuff!!! Many of us can easily relate to your own experiences. I know that I certainly do.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

Great story Luvembuff!!! Many of us can easily relate to your own experiences. I know that I certainly do.

@norbertwinston...thank you. Yes, these younger guys have no idea how lucky they are. Hell, if we were lucky enough to find a muscle girl, we probably couldn't fully enjoy the experience.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

@norbertwinston...thank you. Yes, these younger guys have no idea how lucky they are. Hell, if we were lucky enough to find a muscle girl, we probably couldn't fully enjoy the experience.

Right on all points Luvembuft!

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

Being infatuated with muscles on girls/women, for as long as I can remember, I hid my secret for many years. As an older guy, back in my youth, I would have been branded a weirdo, if I told people I loved muscular females!!!

I was pretty outspoken about my love of female muscle, during the era of American Gladiators, etc. But I do remember how a lot of my friends and acquaintances would give me grief about it.. There was an attitude that is was weird to like a woman with a lot of muscle. Because these were people close to me, their takes didn't really bother me.. But I also remember going thru checkout lines in the 90s, at book and/or grocery stores with issues of WPW or "Female Bodybuilding" magazine, and cashiers commenting on how gross they thought female muscle was.. which I always found unprofessional, and obnoxious. They never would comment if I had an issue of a co-ed muscle magazine tho, like "Ironman" etc. I guess these cashiers just felt some (dumb) urge, to announce how offensive female muscle was..

Jun 11, 2024 - edited Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

You make a great point about people, back in the day, expressing their distaste about muscular women. This all goes back to the idea of cultural conditioning where women were not equal to men (an age-old idea today supported by religion of all colours and types) and to the Fashion of the day. Still much the same in 2024. Humans do not let go of ancestral bias easily. This touches upon an huge subject.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

You make a great point about people, back in the day, expressing their distaste about muscular women. This all goes back to the idea of cultural conditioning where women were not equal to men (an age-old idea today supported by religion of all colours and types) and to the Fashion of the day. Still much the same in 2024. Humans do not let go of ancestral bias easily. This touches upon an huge subject.

All day. It's also worth noting that most men do not find muscular women attractive. And since many guys will only value women according to how sexually attractive they are, muscular women (and the men who like them) are held in a special area of contempt.

You even see it on this site. Women who are considered too muscular or too masculine or have short hair or have tattoos or whatever... some dudes can't help but run their mouth about how they're not personally aroused by them. They'll take good time out of their day to broadcast that to the world.

fp909
Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

I think it goes for many things, but if the counter cultural look is just right people will go for it

When I was coming up you didn’t see a lot of women with short hair. I remember saying it about my mothers haircut when she cut it all off and had short curls for over a year—wondering why she’d cut her hair short like a man (long before I knew the connection between hair and emotional state for women, especially black women).

Short hair was for tomboys and maybe they were led in. Also a lot of the short hair I saw in media was for older women. Brady Bunch or Demi Moore, things like that.

Although she had been on the show previously and left, catching reruns of Star Trek voyager I realized that, shit, Kes was hot, and I thought she was hotter with her hair shorter. So that’s when I started to have more attraction for pixie cuts.

Muscle was no diff

The 90s were good. There was nothing in my childhood that I can distinctly remember as being terrible until 9/11. If you were teen you would remember more of the gulf wars and the original WTC bombing, columbine, and McVeigh. But it wasn’t everywhere all the time. The 90s were an incredible era to be raised in.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

Most men also find overweight, out of shape or very skinny women unattractive. Most men admire buff women but are not secure enough to admit it. When they and their partners become overweight as they age, they loose mutual attraction and many break up. So the next time someone disses a buff woman, explain the obvious alternative.

Jun 11, 2024 - permalink

80s kid here. Back then there were Bally's Total Fitness commercials on TV all the time, and Bally's was particularly shameless about using sex in advertising - their commercials were mostly sculpted, glistening, oiled up lightly muscled women writhing around on gym machines.

I didn't consciously realize I was into musclegirls when I was that young. Actually they used to make me angry, because the feeling of being turned on made my skin crawl, which in turn would make me feel repulsed. I think a LOT more guys are into musclegirls than are willing to admit it, but some won't admit it to themselves at all and some won't admit it publicly.

When I first started being into girls, I was just into normal girls. I didn't realize I had that thing for musclegirls until I was looking at pictures of Sunny on WWF's America Online site and found one of her doing hero curls.

My parents hated AOL so I only had it for a couple months before they turned it off, and after that I was on my own for finding musclegirl stuff. Bally's had decided to stop using sexy advertising because they thought it was putting women off joining. So the best bet for finding musclegirls for someone with neither internet, cable or transportation was "paid programming" advertising home fitness products. These commercials followed a formula - there'd be a segment with talking heads, then the 'commercial' that showed clips of one guy, one standard supermodel looking woman, and one mildly muscular woman using the product whatever it was. Before I knew who Monica Brant and Kiana Tom were, I had a thing for whoever that woman in pale blue who was on the TotalGym commercial.

Then when the folks got cable, it was all about taping Bodyshaping, Cory Everson's Gotta Sweat, Kiana Tom's Flex Appeal, and I forget the name of it but the one that had Minna Lessig on it.

fp909
Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

Yep the infomercial era was probably a huge gateway. For me it was Bowflex, and the vibrating ab machine.

Not to mention magazine insets and things like Tae Bo that always had very pretty women.

Through the late 90s you could still pick up shows on espn, but I only saw 2. I think I caught Kianas show once. But even on the east coast you had to be up in the middle of the night to see the best stuff.

Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

I remember some of those bullshit infomercials vibrating belts that were supposed to give you muscles without working out. at least some of the fitness models looked amazing I was more interested in their legs. they were always on tv around mid day when most people were at work or school. I remember being sick and watching them and going crazy with lust. but back then it seemed like the world was dead between 9:00 and 15:00 the outside world too the city was mostly empty apart from some very old people. these days you can have fun online at any time. but even now if I try to watch live streams in the European midday there is not much going on. Americans seem to be more active in the morning. while Europeans are night people and in Asia there is a language and cultural barrier

Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

Most men also find overweight, out of shape or very skinny women unattractive. Most men admire buff women but are not secure enough to admit it. When they and their partners become overweight as they age, they loose mutual attraction and many break up. So the next time someone disses a buff woman, explain the obvious alternative.

Dude, respectfully… there’s a really easy test for this.

Watch some p0rn. Conventional hetero stuff. Will give you a pretty accurate and widespread overview of what kind of women most men find attractive.

You don’t see many buff girls in that. You might see like one. Muscles on women is simply not a mainstream taste. I find it hard to believe too as it’s literally the sexiest thing ever to me, but most guys are turned off by it.

Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

You make a great point about people, back in the day, expressing their distaste about muscular women. This all goes back to the idea of cultural conditioning where women were not equal to men (an age-old idea today supported by religion of all colours and types) and to the Fashion of the day. Still much the same in 2024. Humans do not let go of ancestral bias easily. This touches upon an huge subject.

yeah.. and to be honest I think there is some value in our 'ancestral bias'.. because these our attitudes that developed over generations, for self-interests. So, I often value (or at least understand) traditional beliefs.. BUT what I find frustrating, is that since the '6os many traditional sexual attitudes & prejudices have been obliterated. Almost any and every sexual anomaly has been normalized in American society.. but female bodybuilding is still generally treated with (open) contempt.

And I think part of this is because female bodybuilding doesn't have much institutional advocacy on its side. A lot of the reason homosexuality became normalized (in America) is because of political advocacy and corporate advocacy on its behalf.. There hasn't been much institutional support for muscular women. When institutions (like media) utilize female bodybuilders, its still marginalized, one-dimensional depictions.. ie- making fun of their masculine qualities, making them seem like deranged 'roid-ragers, etc. For the most part, I don't care how institutions perceive female muscle, but it does seem like a blind spot, when so many other forms of previously fringe, or taboo, sexual tastes have been normalized (and even celebrated now). Just my opinions.

Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

So i wanted to ask this for a while but i don't know were. if i asked on reddit i would probably get mass downvoted and banned .but basically i want to know how much the average adult in 1990 or earlier knew about fetishes and other weird things that they are not personally into. like for example furries femdom fat vore pretty much anything. these days i know about these things because i run into them online on accident and me and my friends sometimes make jokes about them .while i am old enough to remember a time before the internet was a big deal by the time i hit puberty i was using it. everything seemed very pure and innocent back then but i know female muscle content existed before the internet.

I graduated high school in 1991, so I think I can answer this one pretty well for you. I would say in 1990 people were a lot less aware of specific fetishes than they are now. When most people hear the word "fetish" back then, the first thought likely would have been leather and latex, typical S&M bondage stuff, foot fetishes, maybe stockings etc.

There was VHS cassette pornography that served some pretty specific fetishes, but the general public likely wouldn't be aware of them unless they happened to see an ad in the back of a conventional porno magazine for example.

As for girls with muscle, lift and carry, mixed wrestling and such, they were fairly unknown I think. Guys of my generation here will likely remember how awkward it was to pick up the latest copy of Women's Physique World or Strong & Shapely at the newsstand hahaha. But once you found a source, you could order a pretty broad selection of VHS tapes. There was a whole world of content out there, it was just harder to find and out of view of most of the general public unless they happened to stumble across it.

I think any "normie" who happened to pick up a copy of Women's Physique World back then would have been able to ascertain that it was targeted at men with a fetish for muscular women though.It was quite unlike any other bodybuilding magazine. There were no workout routines or diet articles in it. It was all about the women. Just photos and profiles and contest coverage.

By 1990 WPW's circulation was pretty widespread too. I don't have actual numbers, but I can tell you that most major newsstands seem to have it. If the first one you checked didn't have it, then I'd have to check maybe one or two more at most usually before I could track down a copy.

Part of what kept our particular fetish in the shadows back then was probably shame I'm sure. As a teenager, I was worried to death that my friends wouldn't understand and that they would just think I was gay and in denial about it or something. I think there's still some of that today, but muscular woman are WAY more socially acceptable today than in 1990.

So-called "muscle mommies" get lavish praise on TikTok and Instagram. There's still some insecure dickheads who make negative comments, but it's so much easier to have sthenolagnia these days. It's also heartening for me to see just how many guys make positive comments and express attraction towards women specifically because of their muscular physiques or strength now. It helped me realize that we are not as rare as I once imagined. If I had to guess, I'd say at least 0.5% - 1% of American men have some variant of this fetish.

My theory is that it may be genetic. Who knows, I doubt anyone has seriously studied it, but all I know is that I have been powerfully, undeniably attracted to muscular girls and displays of strength by females for as long as I can remember. Long before puberty even hit. Long before I could understand why. Even in kindergarten and 1st grade, I would get an incredible thrill and dopamine rush when I convinced a girl my age to flex or arm wrestle me or give me a piggyback ride around the playground.

Who knows why? I have some theories. But the why doesn't really matter I suppose. I used to hate that about myself, but I decided to like it instead a long time ago. I'm glad I have something that give me such unbridled pleasure and excitement. It is a double-edged sword of course though. Like any other fetish, this one is definitely prone to becoming an addiction which can lead to problems, so that's something we need to be aware of.

Jun 12, 2024 - permalink

Perhaps dating myself, but I do recall mags like Sports Review Wrestling and various pro-wrestling mags from mid-late 1970s. The pro-mags occasionally had fetish type articles. Of course, the classifieds also were interesting. The 80s saw the beginning of G.R. doing his thing in Europe first with the German Mat Club and eventually DWW. I think Academy Productions and WPW both began in the '80s

I don't know Academy Productions, but WPW evolved from an earlier black and white mag called WPP I believe (Women's Physique Publication). Those guys seem to have began in the mid-late 70s believe it or not. The WPW people were closely aligned with the Premier Productions people, like Tom Jackson and Ray Martin etc. WPW stuck to strictly posing though for the most part, but they'd advertise the mixed wrestling VHS's in the back. You can see buy digital versions of the old WPW VHS tapes and many of the mixed wrestling videos online. They even have some FBB's from the late 70s flexing on Super 8 film now converted to digital.

I miss that era in some ways. Obviously we have way more content and the resolution is 10 times better and it's delivered instantly... but I miss the style of filming back then. Now it seems like most FBB stuff is edited like a shitty TikTok video. It's 5-6 minutes long and full of annoying cuts and edits, jumping around and stupid ass camera angles. Her Biceps is sadly a major offender. I get that it's what sells now for some dumb reason, but it still bothers me because Mike (aka Fistman) the guy who runs it is old enough to remember what the content USED to be like.

You used to get 30 mins to 2 hours or more of minimally edited video. You could watch a FBB hit every possible pose a dozen times, all with no annoying jump edits, out of focus shaky camera bullshit or goofy camera angles. If our stuff was a drug, you might say this was the pure shit. What we get now is stepped on and diluted 100x.

Also, When they did displays of strength or wrestling back then it wasn't 3 minutes long and edited to shit. When the girls bent steel bars they used a variety of thick-ass iron and steel bars and pipes that took real strength to bend and it was amazing. Her Bicpes decided to use a stack of flimsy 1/16" thick steel for some reason I will never understand. I guess they think it's easier to "keep score" because you can count the number of flimsy steel strips, but it sucks. First of all, those can only be bent in one direction. Second, they get weaker and weaker every time they are bent back due to metal fatigue, so it's really not that scientific at all.

The old school way to me is infinitely more impressive and far sexier.... but I digress

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeV9FGUfFSE

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