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She's very smart, and was well aware about the importance of keeping her professional and entertainer lives separate... a concept that seems to escape many to this day.
Her own definition of a schmoe is basically the type of guy that makes the rest of us look bad, but I don't blame her. It would be one thing if it was only a small handful of guys acting like that, but there's actually quite a lot.
I have to screenshot the following since I cannot copy/paste it:
I think their goal is to push the boundaries as far as they can until it breaks. Basically if they can get nudes and explicit content, then great for them, and if not, then the worst thing that can happen is she blocks him but that's not really a loss for him since she wasn't going to give him those nudes anyway. So he just moves on to the next girl and repeat.
They don't really think about the effect it has on someone, when she's encountering this hundreds or thousands of times.
Ah it’s been a long time since I’ve heard from Mz Devious. Her real name was Daniel (something) she always seemed to have this toxic biker chick persona to her. One of those I’ve been wondering about, as to what happened to.
There are many different dialogues we can go into about us muscles lovers or what ever we should be referred as.
I don’t know how I never saw this back in 2011.
First off that was a pretty big rant, some of it was intelligent, some of it was receptive.
I wish I knew how to break it all down from her rant from 12 years ago.
I’m literally spacing this out, so I can try to break things down, and if I’m not making sense, or drift off topic, please cut me some slack, I had a hernia, I’m in pain.
In this age of shared information, there’s so many ways a woman can feed into something a man, most notably the eccentric man, feels enamored by. There are community’s online for foot fetishes, plus size or (BBW) or women tall women fetish. It’s really hard not to have a digital presence these day, and I know Daniel (Mz Devious) was talking about how no women with muscle is safe, even it’s a picture of a muscle women out with friends, it doesn’t matter as long as there is a shot of their biceps, calves etc.
There are some physiological reasons some us have this fetish, as oppose to some that don’t know why. But the most part nobody knows how this started. I just one noticed I was attracted to this. I don’t wanna go into details about my personal struggles, but I have suffers from physical inadequacies that might lead to mixed messages which lead to this fetish.
I do feel guilty sometimes about the (I’m going to refer to them as MBs (muscle babes) I follow on Instagram. Apart me knows it’s like the virtual equivalent of watching someone from a van from a far. Also not all would to the least be nice if I met them in person, and don’t have the same beliefs and interest I do.
I could also go on about how many you have met online vs how many MBs have you met in person.
My online days came way way before I finally went to my first bodybuilding show, and I’ve only met a few at shows, and these shows were only in WA state.
When it comes to MB’s that were friendly toward muscles lovers, Tarna is one I bring up a lot.
I have been blocked by several I have met at shows, for reason I thought were petty or didn’t make sense.
For example I just posted a pic of an MB I took of her at a show onto her FB cause I thought she’d want it, but then she blocked me.
I got excited during my trip to muscle beach, and thought some MB’s would honored to tagged in these photos due its history with bodybuilding. One didn’t care I tagged her, and loved the pictures, but one other one blocked me.
Mz Devious post still remains relevant as many of us try to figure out how to go about this fetish that we cannot deny.
Can we not deny this fetish as much as the LGBTQ cannot deny who they are?
How do go about this as to both online and seeing MB’s in person.
Yeah, it's an interesting take on things.
I'd say that the word "schome" isn't necessarily a loaded term amongst the girls that I talk to. I think a lot of them use it in a playful way, and guys sometimes refer to themselves as such. I think it can be as harmless as "nerd" in many ways.
I think that she's just describing overall toxic traits that any female sex worker or attractive public figure has to deal with.
We see it plenty of times here. Some guys feel that these women should respond to their comments and message requests. They resent it when they earn money on onlyfans. Denigrating the girls and calling them bitches or sluts makes them feel better about the fact that they are attracted to muscle women but cannot be with them. I imagine that most strippers, adult performers, etc deal with the same.
I don't get it. It's actually so easy not to be an asshole. If a woman like Mz Devious is selling content and you don't want to buy it, and you're too cheap to send her a tip or support her, then there's SO much out there that you can consume for free. I mean this whole site is free.
It's so easy to just appreciate the work that these women do and the plethora of amazing pictures and videos to turn us on at no cost whatsoever. All that they're asking is some basic respect and discretion. And if you want their time.. you should compensate them for it in some way. But that's just too much to ask for some guys.
And to respectively answer the question posed above, this is what I'd say in response to:
How do go about this as to both online and seeing MB’s in person.
1) Ask permission before shooting photos and tagging people. That's just kind of standard anyway, but it's especially important as many of these girls have professional & family lives, and then a distinct side hustle
2) Some FBB's love getting fetish-y male attention for their bodies and some do not. Don't assume that a woman is rude or ungrateful if she's not into speaking with thirsty male fans (I say this as a thirsty male fan). Not all of them are about this life, and that's okay.
3) I can't stress this enough... PAY THEM.
Join their onlyfans if they have one. Or use an affiliate link if they have one. Buy stuff on their Amazon wishlist. Send them some money on paypal or cashapp if they have those links. While I realize that there are some predatory and ratchet women out there who take financial advantage of their fans, I think they are a tiny minority, and most FBB's really appreciate the support.
Do it with no strings attached, be friendly, and you'll be amazed at how many of them respond positively. 99.5% of guys on social media are too cheap to ever send them a single dime, so this automatically puts you into a supportive light. And most of them really do need the money.. this sport is expensive!
The vast majority of men inside the fbb fandom - and this is from my personal experience over the last 25 years - just want jerk off content (look at this website - most people are just downloading stuff). They are not deeply interested in the private life or the character of these women. Like me. I dont't care how they live or what their politics are. In fact they can be awful human beings as long as their bodies give me a nice boner.
IMHO people shouldn't take this horny hobby too serious. For example I can laugh about the fact that a big female biceps often turns me on more than a vagina or a pair of boobs. At the end of the day it's a nice distraction from ordinary life. Some kind of escapism, if you want. But of course like in every field/fetish you have people who go to the extreme. Maybe because they are disappointed with their real (sex) life. Who knows...
Mz Devious post still remains relevant as many of us try to figure out how to go about this fetish that we cannot deny.
Can we not deny this fetish as much as the LGBTQ cannot deny who they are?
How do go about this as to both online and seeing MB’s in person.
There is nothing wrong with being attracted to muscular women. Female bodybuilders and muscular women in general don't look down on men because they are attracted to them. They do, however, hate it when men take that attraction and completely fetishize them when they interact with them. Being into strength sports (CrossFit) I am around some pretty fit and muscular women, and from talking to them I can tell you that they have ALL gotten the "can you wrestle me?" "can you beat me up?" "Can you crush my head with your legs?" comments. Again, nothing wrong with having those fantasies, but foisting them upon their social media pages and DMs shows a lack of social graces and respect. And even if you think you're being clever with your comments like "oh I bet I could beat you in armwrestling," they're not stupid, and they know that it's more them fetishizing them versus challenging them or whatever.
Mz. Devious is not saying you should feel bad for being attracted to women like her. Rather, she talks about the lack of boundaries that unfortunately a lot of dudes have towards these women. Things like demanding more pictures, messaging them creepy and "schmoey" shit and revealing and spreading their real name (while Mz Devious's real name is now widely known, out of respect I don't use it because of how much she hated it being revealed). And it's hard for them to not have a "guilt by association" mentality because of just how many guys do those kinds of things: I also can't tell you how many buff women reply thanking me that I am "not one of the kinds of guys," because when I do reach out I talk about things like training and nutrition versus the bombardment of fetishistic questions and comments they get.
To answer your question, Scott, the issue isn't in denying your fetish or attraction towards buff women, and no one is saying you should do that. Rather, the goal is to learn how to act around buff women in a respectful way where you are showing them how much you appreciate their craft WITHOUT fetishizing them. And a lot of that comes from knowing what to talk about. I've always highly recommended that guys who are attraction to buff women get into lifting and strength sports themselves, and that's because it not only puts you in environments where you can meet fit and muscular women, but it also gives you a knowledge base on topics you can discuss when talking to buff women. When I message a fit woman and make a comment on their training, I can talk about training routines, diet, recovery protocols, etc. For a lot of guys who like buff women but don't train themselves, I think it can be harder to talk with them because they have less of a knowledge base to touch from, and as a result default to the usual "schmoe" questions like "how much do you bench?" etc? If you aren't into lifting, Scott, I highly recommend getting into it.
Muscle_toez gave great advice to you. From reading your past comments, the reason some of those women are mad at you is because you not only took their pictures without permission, but you TAGGED them without asking if you could first. It's basic common courtesy to ask if it's ok to tag someone in a post or picture (hell, I've been with my girlfriend for three years and I always ask her if it's ok to tag her in posts I make.) It's about respecting their boundaries and privacy, and you should never assume that they would like something. You kind of learned that the hard way, but make sure you don't do it again.
And on another note, in her blog post she talks about how much she disliked having her real name revealed along with ignoring the requests to remove it. I know you tried to mention her real name, but even though it's now common knowledge, it shows respect to not try and post it considering how much of an awful experience it was for her.
Finally, if I recall correctly you mentioned having autism? Have you thought about taking a course to help with social skills? Try looking into Toastmasters. It's a great nonprofit that helps with communication and public speaking, and I know a couple friends who are on the spectrum who have benefited from going to those courses. I highly recommend checking them out https://www.toastmasters.org/magazine/magazin...
Good luck!
^^^ really well said. I'll just expand that many guys complain about getting blocked on social media. Or they call women stuck up or bitches or not responding. I think there's a really easy guideline here.
If someone is athlete and their account is not 100% oriented towards sex work, then this is fine: "You look so strong and beautiful!" "Look at those arms... you look huge!" "What an amazing physique. Your hair is beautiful too"
This is not fine: "I sent you DM, please respond bby" "I weigh 100kg, could you lift me?!?!" "I bet that I can still beat you at armwrestling ahahaha" "I want to lick your feet and service you my enormous goddess"
Now, if you have girls like Lisa Cross or Brandi Mae who are primarily doing fetish/sex work, that kind of stuff is probably fine. But just don't post it to everyone else.
A lot of these girls do have onlyfans/fansly links in their bio. If you feel like saying this to them, then join their site and pay them for their time. If you send any of the above statements on onlyfans alongside a tip, then I can guarantee that no one is gonna be mad. No one is going to block you. And chances are you'll get a response.
The toxic mentality is being turned on by these women and seeing them as objects that owe you something. It causes so many FBB's to get jaded and walk away from their fans. I never understood it... to me it just seems so easy and natural to NOT be that f**king guy.
I could go phrase by phrase from her diatribe to point the hypocricy, but it's not worth it, it is a 13 year old post she made. Online sex workers nowadays are more self aware of what their line of work entails.
Here is the two sentence summary to save you the 5 minute read.
Mz Devious: Hey you low life dirty schmoes, pay up, follow my instructions and piss off. You are lower than "ballbusting connoisseurs", go back to your FBBs who only train and shoot sex vids, and if you are a "buxom bikini athlete" you suck too.
I could go phrase by phrase from her diatribe to point the hypocrisy, but it's not worth it, it is a 13 year old post she made. Online sex workers nowadays are more self aware of what their line of work entails.
Here is the two sentence summary to save you the 5 minute read.
Mz Devious: Hey you low life dirty schmoes, pay up, follow my instructions and piss off. You are lower than "ballbusting connoisseurs", go back to your FBBs who only train and shoot sex vids, and if you are a "buxom bikini athlete" you suck too.
Thanks I wasn’t going to spend time reading some of the dissertations for those majoring in schmoedom above. There’s nothing wrong with being a schmoe. It’s when you become annoying that changes the perception and ends up painting every schmoe with a broad stroke
Producing explicit content as a public figure, and expecting your real name to remain private, is extremely out of touch with reality.
That aside, "schmoe" behavior is not exclusive to this scene. Just look at what female streamers go through. They have people showing up to their homes, swatting them, trying to burn their house down, stalking them, etc. There are crazy people out there no matter what fetish or industry we're talking about.
So let her and anyone else hate schmoes. Why should anyone care, knowing that there are assholes in any community?
Again, it makes the rest of the community look bad, and therefore severely limits opportunities.
For every dude who DM's "Hey babe, send me nudes and let's bang," there's 100 GWM's who leave the building.
Only to people who have a habit of making generalizations, and there's no reason to have any respect for those type of people. Especially considering this happens in every single community as I've already pointed out.
I don't understand the idea of "the community" looking bad. What community? We're all individuals, I couldn't care less about someone else's behavior. We're not friends, acquaintances, teammates, family, etc. Schmoes are creepy and not worth considering in any context. They don't matter.
Producing explicit content as a public figure, and expecting your real name to remain private, is extremely out of touch with reality.
That aside, "schmoe" behavior is not exclusive to this scene. Just look at what female streamers go through. They have people showing up to their homes, swatting them, trying to burn their house down, stalking them, etc. There are crazy people out there no matter what fetish or industry we're talking about.
So let her and anyone else hate schmoes. Why should anyone care, knowing that there are assholes in any community?
I want assholes to feel badly about themselves as a teaching mechanism (for their benefit), so that's why I invest my time in calling them out. Just like they have the personal freedom to be assholes, I have the personal freedom to call them "beta boi bitches" without caring that that language turns them on. Educating them is what I value.
I don't understand the idea of "the community" looking bad. What community? We're all individuals, I couldn't care less about someone else's behavior. We're not friends, acquaintances, teammates, family, etc. Schmoes are creepy and not worth considering in any context. They don't matter.
Even here. I expect certain standards. If not met then the sites TPTB block them. If not the community says they like these standards.
I don't understand the idea of "the community" looking bad. What community?
Yes, on one hand there is no such thing. But on the other hand no person is able to know every other person individually. Especially those he has never met before. It is part of common sense that people expect you to act and will assume you to act in a way they have seen people like you act before. In some places people joke about certain minorities how sad it is to see 95 % of them ruin the good reputation of the remaining 5 %.
Let's say 95 % of fans they meet are too eager or make them uncomfortable. But maybe only 5 % of people they're introduced to will cause the same problems. Of course you know what any sane person will soon learn and then always expect to happen. In both cases it's unfair to those 5 % but fair to those remaining 95 %. This is, in a way, how all prejudices operate. So the problem is real, even though the community isn't.
I want assholes to feel badly about themselves as a teaching mechanism (for their benefit)
In reality a Sisyphean task. Ideally you would attack an asshole once and he would stop being an asshole forever. But really the biggest ones are the most fruitless to deal with. Some may ignore you, some may challenge you and some may try to make you look bad.
I think an equally big problem are what I'd call wimps. These people act the way they do because they have nothing to lose, socially speaking. Nobody's on their side, so to them it does not pay to listen to anyone. Unless you can punish them somehow. I think being an asshole implies some form of overt aggression. There are always more creeps than bullies.
And every creep justifies himself by saying "well, at least I'm not a bully". The comment filter was obviously created against creepy comments and creep after creep after creep came forward to announce how bullies are awful and how unfortunate it is their creepy comments aka compliments are now caught in the crossfire. There was always a vanishingly small amount of real crude sexual aggression. I think assholes and obsessive losers are two different species.
Maybe there is more crude and overt sexual innuendo on Instagram? I don't know because for some reason I've been unable to open an account.
Schmoes are creepy and not worth considering in any context. They don't matter.
Again, the word has a range of different meanings, all the way from any male non-bodybuilder to a person who harasses female bodybuilders online and sometimes in real life too. One thing I see rarely mentioned is that most of the time this eager male audience is not part of their livelihood. It's silly to expect them to behave like movie stars. Most of the time their target audience are the average women they market supplements and personal training to. So almost all attention from an average male may be for them an unwanted waste of time, no matter how politely expressed.
Many of them get no benefit from telling polite admirers and utter creeps apart. "But I am polite! I deserve their time! I am not like those evil dudes who post sexual innuendo."
Didn’t she make a bunch of vids of her topless just popping her fake boobs up and down? Way to go after her fan base
This is an old article but I think it is a topic that can lead to some good discussion here, and it's always good to hear from a female bodybuilder's perspective on the issue. http://mzdevious.com/schmoes-fans/
To put it into context, this is around on the time Mz Devious, a pretty popular cam model and fetish producer at the time, had her real name leaked on a web forum (forgot which one, but I can take a pretty good guess,) and the webmaster ignored requests to take it down.
What are you thoughts on her post?