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I think female bodybuilding contests should be judged by muscle size and shape, symmetry, and the best posing.
In my opinion, "femininity" is a pointless thing to judge for. Maybe for the smaller divisions, fine whatever (though I think it's pointless even there) but core bodybuilding tenets are the only things that should be factored in judging female contestants.
It's not like male bodybuilders are judged for masculinity and how manly they are during posing or whatever, just the stuff that makes bodybuilding what it is.
i think a lot of women don't want to lose their femininity, like Shaw. That's why you see so many implants, lip injects, hair work, nails. Also consider women who weren't competitors at first that came into it with implants or something else because they didn't like their smaller breasts or lips before hand.
There are for sure competitors that don't give two shits about it. But even they glam it up on stage.
It shouldn't. But sadly it is.
Don't get me wrong, I personally LOVE FBB's who are both huge and feminine. I'll take curves and softer conditioning over being super lean and ripped any day.
But these women are often held an impossible double standard when it comes to bodybuilding judges. Get huge.. but not too huge. Take a ton of drugs to be jacked and lean, but don't go too far with the drugs. Pay through the nose for hair, makeup, nails, suits, shoes, etc.
Things are way more straightforward for the men. They just need to be the biggest and most aesthetic dude on the stage. No one is telling them not to get too "masculine." No one requires them to get their hair or nails done. Or to even have hair.
I wouldn't personally find her attractive, but if the best FBB in terms of muscle and symmetry took the stage with a bald head and natural nails, and a square jaw and a $50 posing suit, then I 100% think that she should take the prize. That's what the competition is all about.
But we all know that's never going to happen.
How do you judge femininity in a BB contest?
Is it just about the overall look or the attitude in how they carry themselves?
For the lesbians who naturally have a more masculine demeanor does that mean they're fucked no matter how amazing a physique they bring?
Is it about giving extra credit to those who have bolt-ons and docking points for anyone who doesn't?
IDK. I think it should always be about who brings in the best physique. How does one even grade femininity? It would just be another thing the judges wouldn't agree on.
No, it absolutely shouldn't. Imagine women who don't like to look very feminine. It would be total discrimination for those to adhere to certain female stereotypes just to win a competition that has to do with muscularity.
Imagine a male bodybuilder would be discriminated against in a similar way for not having a beard but instead wearing earrings or makeup on stage, which some judges then consider "not masculine enough" and rate him less. Both scenarios don't fit anymore into the 21. century, for good reasons.
It would be total discrimination for those to adhere to certain female stereotypes
It's not a stereotype. You either are and look feminine, or you don't. If you're judging aesthetics, you have to adhere to some standards. Otherwise, they may just as well have mixed bodybuilding competitions.
Both scenarios don't fit anymore into the 21. century
Then why is it being discussed here? Being born in this century isn't some form of superpower, you know.
Schmoes have no connection to reality that's a given.
I will be waiting for a schmoe organized and paid FBB competition that doesn't care about hairy women's chest, male pattern baldness, square jaws, deep male voices, bloated abdomen, 5o clock shadows and bonus points for inflamed injection sites and bulging bikini bottoms.
Let's see how many competitors this circus will attract, how many tickets you can sell and what the prize money will be. Since the facade of FBB femininity is bad let's do away with that.
I will be waiting for the experiment. I will even buy a ticket.
I will be waiting for a schmoe organized and paid FBB competition that doesn't care about hairy women's chest, male pattern baldness, square jaws, deep male voices, bloated abdomen, 5o clock shadows and bonus points for inflamed injection sites and bulging bikini bottoms.
Look, Ma! A straw man!
Who's to say? Bikini athletes are already getting pretty yoked, and eventually Wellness athletes will look like this.
Georgia's pic is a bit of a misleading one since they wouldn't flex like that on stage. I'd wager a good bit of the top competitors would look like that if they did bodybuilding poses.
I know there are other users in this boat too but I think there needs to be some kind of classic division where they're emulating late 80s/early 90s size and posing.
but then again, the caveat is that every cycle someone will try to get the edge over their competitors and be a little drier or bigger on stage.
I agree about a Classic division, but I know people would complain about there being another one. I think the worry of competitors being too dry and big could be solved with a weight cap.
there's already an internal war going on, with the Arnold stripping WBB, WPD, and Figure from the show for the foreseeable future. Guess the question is what kind of standards will they enforce on Wellness and Bikini?
I didn't know that. They make no money from these competitions. No one cares for the winners. That's the hard reality. There are many other lesser shows that have only bikini night.
Last couple of years competitors got too big again. Many figure girls are bigger than Juliana Malacarne that dominated womens Physique. WP and FBB are all a blur, most girls could compete in either category. If Arnold did it there will be changes coming soon by the IFBB.
It's very simple.
Why have a women's bodybuilding division if there's nothing to separate it from the men's divisions? And if it's purely about muscles regardless of gender, then what chance does women's bodybuilding have against men's? Men will always have the more impressive physiques, so there has to be something to distinguish between them and women.
Hence the need for femininity.
I didn't know that. They make no money from these competitions. No one cares for the winners. That's the hard reality. There are many other lesser shows that have only bikini night.
Last couple of years competitors got too big again. Many figure girls are bigger than Juliana Malacarne that dominated womens Physique. WP and FBB are all a blur, most girls could compete in either category. If Arnold did it there will be changes coming soon by the IFBB.
well a lot of WPD and Figure competitors are raising a big stink about this, but although it's a head scratcher from a competitor standpoint, from a money standpoint they stand to make more from Bikini/Wellness and don't have to spend anything on the other ones.
They also removed Men's 212 which people aren't happy about.
but absolutely you can see the creep in size over the years--early winners like DLB and Julianna wouldn't do very well these days
Femininity should count for something, but that might complicate things.
You can clearly see who has the biggest muscles and the most conditioning. But femininity is tricky. Does it come down to who has the best hair and makeup? The best mani-pedi? The biggest boobs and butt? The way they strut and sway their hips?
I mentioned in another thread that I'm of two mindsets. It's frustrating that things like this are the reason why Bev Francis was snubbed at the 1991 Ms Olympia. On the other hand, I don't want the judges awarding a girl with a bubble gut that puts Phil Heath's to shame.
No, but they need to get tighter control over the drug use. Women can't help being born with more masculine features than other women. But the woman who take so many PED's that they get a receding hairline, a square jaw like Batman and a voice like Barry White shouldn't be rewarded nor encouraged for taking it to extremes and destroying their own health in the process. I like big muscles as much as most of you, but not when they come at the expense of femininity and health. I understand most of these women use something somewhere along the line, but it would be good if the hardcore drug abuse could be disincentivized. Plenty of women out there who manage to build a truly epic physique without becoming the least bit manly in the process. It can be done. If your genetics just aren't quite there, killing yourself with steroids seems like bad idea. It's your body to do with what you want, but I don't think we should encourage that shit.
There's no standard of athletic ability to judge women against, so why not add "femininity?" The conventions of the heels and the rigid glittery posing suits, the massive makeup and skin dye, and the boob enhancements have all become standard expectations.
It's not like boxing or wrestling, not like MMA or rock climbing. It is and always will be a fetishistic freak sport that costs a fortune and is very hard on the women who compete in it (many of whom came into the sport with eating disorders) since everything is about how you look to a subjective panel of judges on a certain day.
It's a beauty contest and a dieting/conditioning contest. Let's not get so worked up about it.
Well, Andrea, who will probably win again this year has already the Batman jaws, seems that the criterias are not that stricts. I'm in favor of leaving it the way it is.
It's bodybuilding. It's all about who brings the biggest and best-looking muscles. But even Andrea Shaw, the Hulk of women's bodybuilding, thinks femininity should be considered, especially in posing routines. What's your take?