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Rembering the "good old days", and training in a gym with a high percentage of active bodybuilding athletes, men and women, I noticed a change during the late 80s, early 90s. It was the then IFBB president Ben Weider who worked on making BB more visible to a wide audience, he had the vision of the sport being included in the summer olympics.
As a result he pushed two topics: to include women at level with the men in the sport, and secondly to make bodybuilding "clean". The one as well as the other nonnegotiable a precondition for a Olympic discipline. It was the time when doping controls where enforced on different levels, but it was also the time when more and more women appeared in talk shows, claiming they are natty and their voice is broken because of a current cold. They denied so loud that people got even more suspicious.
The tragic in the whole thing is: they never made it to the Olympic Summer Games, and they never found their acceptance in the pulic, yet, they are still denying.
> DLB's not that big
Bruh. What?
Questionable standards aside, I'm firmly in the "fake natty is dangerous" camp. Building a brand that promises a superhuman/unattainable-without-chemical-assistance physique on a blatant falsehood ("you can do it, just train hard like me and eat your broccoli, also buy my overpriced diet plan") at best lacks moral scruples, and at worst actively puts people's health at risk.
Eating disorders and body dysmorphia are very real afflictions, and these kinds of influencers sell a dream that few, if any, of their fans could even hope to reach. Misinformation aside, people who are blatantly juiced to the gills freely going around saying they're like that because of "gEnEtIcS" and a couple isometric holds isn't good for the sport in the long-term, and it's terrible for the health of those who get swept up in the craze.
Would you rather they encourage steroid use? I side with the comment above. PEDs Enhance they do nothing without a solid workout, form, discipline, and above all diet and sleep habits. Pro's are the ones that knnow the most and can help you best with results so it's a matter of who else should be training people? Finally it is illegal, they have sponsors, so how can they possible be truthful intil in retirement.
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. However I think most would be surprised to know that all competitors on the pro level (including bikini) are on some form of PED's.
I thought it was an interesting enough video to share. I didn't feel like I needed to make another thread for it so I dropped it here. Discuss if you'd like, or ignore it.
1) wonder if the guy allowing the hack of his head to get recognized on nation tv got a free session lmao
2) listing c suite kind of guys doesn’t surprise me at all. The fact that guys that would take no guff from anyone would love to have a quiet moment or two to finally feel a little vulnerable in a way they choose for (them) a small cash exchange isn’t wild. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them did nothing but talk. I know tons of women on hbc who had guys go in and just chat their time away on the clock.
You could say this is an issue of how society views masculinity and how we are allowed to express it. Even Normal guys with no status get flak for showing emotion, and it gets worse the more status you have. They might not have to session at all if they had a partner who was open to letting him feel a certain type of way.
This question has to look at so many layers, to really answer. In many ways I feel like we’re in a sweat spot for athletes saying they do or don’t use PEDs.
The first issue that comes to mind is the snowball effect of it all. While transparency IS good for keeping people from creating unrealistic expectations for themselves, there is also the impact of making PED use more normalized and presenting one’s self as being in good health. We all know that PED use has drastically increased as a result of this higher transparency.
The next piece I think about is the comparative nature of us all. What so many people concern themselves with (myself included at times) is, “can I look like influencer X naturally” or “if I take this drug and that drug, it’s possible for me to look like bodybuilder Y.” To me, this is the bigger problem at the core of it all. Genetics DO play a huge part in what’s possible for any given individual to achieve. PEDs raise the ceiling for an individual, but if any given person takes the exact same drugs, and does the exact same workouts, and eats the exact same foods as Arnold did in his prime, odds are they will NOT end up looking just like him.
Another consideration is the impact of admitting drug use in the culture/country a person lives in. While in some countries, like the United States, recreational drug use comes with the risk of a heavy fine or maybe a short stint in jail for repeated use, many countries have draconian punishment for drug possession. Any acknowledgment of drug use is a risk of severe punishment. I can’t blame someone in a country like that or being part of a culturally conservative religion or other organization from trying to avoid the question of whether they use PEDs and strongly denying use, even when the more educated see clearly they are lying.
Lastly, and this one has been mentioned plenty here, social media has had a huge impact on everyone’s perception. I’ll echo the sentiment that, when we only see what people want us to see, we’re looking at the best possible version of someone. Don’t be fooled, plenty of fitness influencers will take dozens of photos to get the one perfect morning candid shot, or gym flex, or “I’m laughing at something funny, also look at my abs” picture.
So, earlier in the thread some of you went back and forth about DLB. My 2 cents on someone like that is, yeah, she could be natural or maybe not. But her use or not of PEDs is NOT a metric of what’s possible, or what another girl should take if they want to look like her. The natty or not question is also about “what’s possible for me?” But it’s not the correct way to approach the question. Anyone looking to improve themselves is going to have to put in time at a gym and start adjusting their diet to see what’s possible for themselves naturally and THEN decide for themselves if they really want to use PEDs to push it a step further.
Bodybuilding seems to take all the heat when it comes to steroids.
All high level sports are full of drugs, yet the only ones who talk about it are bodybuilders.
Today watched some UFC.....any of those guys could enter a bbing competition and would do well, specially in divisions like physique.
It's all a joke really....the only reason they attack bbing is because they don't "test" their athletes.
Totally 100% agree. Thats the other systemic problem with the whole PED debate that I never even touched on. I guess I mostly skipped it because most of those athletes are juicing for athletic performance and not aesthetics. Cross fit is probably the worst offender because the whole sport is built around this sales pitch of getting in shape, being healthy, and being functionally strong.
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. However I think most would be surprised to know that all competitors on the pro level (including bikini) are on some form of PED's.
I thought it was an interesting enough video to share. I didn't feel like I needed to make another thread for it so I dropped it here. Discuss if you'd like, or ignore it.
a lot of people who trains as a hobby too takes or have taken PED too, thing is not everyone has incredible results even with them because maybe they train/eat very bad or have bad genetic to building muscle and/or don't respond well to PED
Why does anyone care if someone claims to be 'natty' or not. Drug use is illegal and socially stigmatised so it's no wonder that some people claim natty when they're not to avoid the stigma. Personally I don't care and think it's all pretty stupid. It would be best if everyone could just be honest, but unfortunately society doesn't make that easy. They could also get in trouble and be banned for being honest so where is the incentive and why does it matter?
bodybuilders are the easiest to assume based on the eye test.
i think a lot of people look at athletes and have a gauage of "yeah i think i could do that with all the physical tools i have" and someone taking some kind of PED but is a tennis player or a baseball player or a quarterback--they may not be phyically hulking to the eye even if they're using something.
almost no one wants to be a bodybuilder, though many want to look buff, and if i see a huge guy i could see myself saying "ok i don't want to look like that and obviously be on drugs but maybe i'm capable of liek 1/3 of that look without help"
Personally I don't care and think it's all pretty stupid.
That's good for you. The problem is for the people who get unrealistic expectations about what the human body can do because an athlete like Dana Linn Bailey or Ida Bergfoth regularly lie about their steroid use.
That's good for you. The problem is for the people who get unrealistic expectations about what the human body can do because an athlete like Dana Linn Bailey or Ida Bergfoth regularly lie about their steroid use.
There's no incentive to be honest about it. Society doesn't want there to be honesty. It's why steroids are illegal and they'd get stigmatized for admitting it, lose subs, sponsors and business etc... It reminds of a 'few good men', 'you can't handle the truth!'. Society doesn't want honesty yet! Those who follow blindly are going to learn some tough lessons. Ce la vie!
So here's an informative watch about the negative side effects in women from taking steroids:
Most of it will probably not be news to most of you, but some things that I didn't know until watching:
This would be the kind of information that's beneficial to women who are thinking of getting into it. Obviously the healthiest approach is to not take them at all, but if she's going to do it anyway then she needs to know what she'd be willing to live with. My only criticism of the video is that it's only listing effects common in women, even though there are effects common between both genders (such as skin acne).
It's hard to say whether the average non-gym goer suspects if these influencers are on some form of gear. I'd like to think that most people aren't as dumb as they typically appear. However, I think few know the difference between steroids and PED's and end up using the terms interchangeably. This leads to the uninformed conclusion that "I want to get bigger, therefore I must take steroids," failing to realize that it comes in many forms, and some types are more brutal than others.
Would you rather they encourage steroid use? I side with the comment above. PEDs Enhance they do nothing without a solid workout, form, discipline, and above all diet and sleep habits. Pro's are the ones that knnow the most and can help you best with results so it's a matter of who else should be training people? Finally it is illegal, they have sponsors, so how can they possible be truthful intil in retirement.
I don't think being transparent of PED use "encourages it" any more than harm reduction initiatives and resources "encourage" drug use. People who want to take PEDs are going to use them regardless of whether their favorite influencers are taking them or not. I can understand why lifters may not want to admit that they are on them (losing sponsorships, legal and professional repercussions,) but I think ideally it would go a long way towards helping with developing healthy expectations on what can be achieved naturally, and it would also help fight against all the grifting in terms of useless supplements and programming that flood the fitness world.
As I said before, I don't mind if someone doesn't disclose whether they use or not, but what does annoy the shit out of me is when they constantly go out of their way to insist that they are natty and that they condemn any drug use when they themselves are using. That shit is annoying and should be called out.
And with regards to someone like, say, DLB, there is no question that she is not only genetically blessed but that she works very hard and has her nutrition and recovery on point. But I also think you can argue that if it wasn't for PEDs, she wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of success and attention that she had achieved, even if everything else with regards to her training (modified since you can't train as hard naturally as you can on PEDs,) and nutrition are perfectly dialed down.
Exactly Gatsby28. It's a completely false claim. Spreads an illusion that with just the exact training, you also can have the physique you see in the photos. And where do you get this training? Click here! Where can I find these supplements? Just click here! (By the way, this also leads men to think that their girlfriends can get the physique of their wet dreams if they would only just commit to follow the correct steps.)
I love a ripped lean physique. Why not be honest about what it takes to be in the elite?
Anatasia Rider interview with Ron Harris talks openly about PEDS and fake nattys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic94vp6BCsY
Anatasia Rider interview with Ron Harris talks openly about PEDS and fake nattys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic94vp6BCsY
Thanks for this. It's over 40 mins so I haven't watched all of it yet. A lot of great points are brought up in this as it pertains to this thread. Coaches who prescribe anything and everything without really knowing what they're doing and women who just dive in because there really isn't enough information out there for them to research.
She mentions that she's convinced that Winstrol is what caused her deep voice. I don't know how she can know that for sure, because from my understanding women who are on any kind of anabolic steroid for just a couple of months will experience this.
She mentions that she's convinced that Winstrol is what caused her deep voice. I don't know how she can know that for sure, because from my understanding women who are on any kind of anabolic steroid for just a couple of months will experience this.
Not of any kind, some AAS are more androgenic than others. Anavar for instance is known for having mild androgenic side effects, whereas Winstrol is a bit harsher in that regard, although not by much. For what's it worth, Winstrol is also available as an injectable, with higher anabolic and lower androgenic effects, so if anything, the oral would be "riskier." Both Anavar and Winstrol are counted among the "mild" AAS and thus see preferential use by females.
That's not Roid gut. This is Roid, or more appropriately-termed, HGH gut: