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Where do you draw the line between what's considered gay and what's not?

Oct 09, 2021 - permalink

That’s not true at all. Guess you can’t read. Or at least comprehend

Do I really have to explain this to you?

Many, many women have shapely muscular calves, even though they are not involved in fitness or bodybuilding. Are the calf muscles on a female leg masculine? It's ridiculous.

It's a grey area (which you admitted IN YOUR OWN POST). The blanket statement that muscles are a masculine trait, makes no sense and frankly, I imagine it's insulting to some women.

Oct 10, 2021 - permalink

Uh yeah I guess you don’t understand. Muscles are a masculine trait. And when you talk biology, feelings don’t matter. But yeah as I stated, muscles are genderless but it is a masculine trait. Not a manly trait, a masculine one. Understand that.

Oct 10, 2021 - edited Oct 10, 2021 - permalink

I've signed up specifically to answer this post, though I've been ogling muscle babes at GWM for years.

The line is SIMPLE. Does she have a c*ck?! Yes? That's the line.

Anything else is a WOMAN so completely not gay.

Bro, if you're asking yourself these questions then you have questions of yourself that you need to answer.

No hate brother. Accept that your idea of hot heterosexual women includes or is completely limited to buff gearheads and move on! :-)

Oct 10, 2021 - permalink
Deleted by trevorphillips9
Oct 10, 2021 - permalink

Uh yeah I guess you don’t understand. Muscles are a masculine trait. And when you talk biology, feelings don’t matter. But yeah as I stated, muscles are genderless but it is a masculine trait. Not a manly trait, a masculine one. Understand that.

@nbunited I left some mean reply to you, sorry if you caught it before I deleted.

Arguing over this is silly, we all love muscles here right? So let's just celebrate that.

Hope you're having a great day/evening wherever you are, peace 💪

Oct 10, 2021 - permalink

Yeah, man. That’s what I’ve been doing. I was just joining in on the discussion. Just because it’s a different opinion doesn’t mean everyone needs to get all worked up over it. I love muscles just like everyone else here.

Oct 16, 2021 - permalink

Gender differentiation and being a member of your own gender does not come automatically or out of nothing. It is necessary that people grow into it and are helped and guided to express their given gender.

It is a very common but erroneous way of thinking that the ability to assume the roles and responsibilities of one's gender would be somehow innate or automatic. Children are constantly failed by absent parents and neither school nor peers can sufficiently make up for it.

The best outcomes always result from nature and nurture working together. Instead of against each other. Or nature having to work alone.

When things go badly enough, a confusion and an undifferentiated state results. In that situation it is possible to either think that all expressions of gender are arbitrary. Or to think that the confusion is somehow innate and normal. Either in a way that some are born male, some female and some confused. Or everyone is born confused, but some are more so and others less so. But the common theme is to deny the role of upbringing.

Then there are coarse expressions of masculinity that have to do with all kinds of violence and sometimes borderline criminality. And coarse expressions of femininity, such as sleeping with hundreds of guys before you are twenty-five. These are not what masculinity and femininity are or should be. I would say that ideal masculinity is a balance and a perfection of a certain set of traits. And ideal femininity is a balance and perfection of another set of traits. Neither of which includes being muscular to an overblown degree.

Either being trans is just an extreme form of confusion. Or there's no rhyme nor reason, right or wrong, successful or unsuccessful, adaptive or maladaptive when it comes to gender and sexuality. Every human is an independent and inexplicable force of nature with his expression of gender and sexuality, and therefore it would be an act of violence to try to compare, classify, measure or understand him, her or it. Such an act of violence must be countered with an opposite and more forceful act of violence, for example by labeling the person "transphobic" or "homophobic". In other words, silencing him and diagnosing him as mentally ill.

In a behaviorist sense, muscles on a woman are what is called a super-normal signal. In other words, if you react to a butt or boobs, you certainly react more, if not immediately then soon anyway, to big butt or big boobs. A bird will abandon its real eggs if you place artificial but bigger ones next to its nest. In the same way, big muscles on a woman are an advertisement for sexual pleasure, both real and imagined. I wonder why nobody else has summarized it this way before.

Having said this, the idea of liking muscular women is not gay because muscles would indicate a male body. The perceived link to homosexuality comes from this idea of sexual pleasure having so much importance. I know some here have met, befriended, dated and even married female bodybuilders. But then there are the other 99.9 %. Sex that feels good and sex that makes sense and is good for you in your everyday life are almost always not the same thing. By abandoning common sense you can always have in principle a level or two more of sexual pleasure. Being a slave to pleasure is what is considered unmanly and hence gay.

Oct 17, 2021 - permalink

Really great analysis @zarklephaser4. While i may not completely agree with everything I really appreciate the thought that went into your post. I feel like we tend to forget to step back and remember everything we are looking on this site, and have associated our lives with regarding this topic, is a pleasure. Sure it can involve a hobby or lifestyle. But ultimately, with muscular women it is only pleasure.

Oct 18, 2021 - permalink

in a nutshell, my opinion regarding Zarkle's commentary is that it not only heavily smacks of apologism, but also provides me with a very convenient example - to anyone who would doubt otherwise - of what a sexual bigot might believe. from the last paragraph in its entirety, where he similarises homosexuality with uncontrolled hedonism to the point of defining one with the other, or the third from last where calling a spade a spade is apparently regarded as a "more forceful act of violence", all laced throughout with half-studied anecdotes to scientific references used as analogies to support a distinctly pseudoscientific viewpoint.

Uh yeah I guess you don’t understand. Muscles are a masculine trait. And when you talk biology, feelings don’t matter. But yeah as I stated, muscles are genderless but it is a masculine trait. Not a manly trait, a masculine one. Understand that.

this is a very confused opinion, seeing as 'manly' and 'masculine' are adjective synonyms. so you can't really acknowledge one term if you're going to dismiss the other in the same definition because that would be self-contradictory.

i think the basis of the confusion here is that people aren't distinguishing between muscle and muscularity, which would make the world of difference in what is being expressed. in biology, muscularity - NOT muscle - is what's generally considered as a secondary masculine trait as a byproduct of higher concentrations of testosterone in most men compared to most women. so while feelings aren't a necessary factor in the way scientific reasoning is governed, grammar otoh is a very different matter.. particularly when you expect others to understand you.

[..]but the only irritation to be seen here seems to come from the folks you say "have no real worry". From trying to shut down the discussion, questioning its worth, sneering at the OP, cussing, making a point of letting everybody know how little they care about it, or getting up on their soapboxes in solipsistic rants, trying to make the thread about themselves.

i was under the impression that the thread was about entertaining the perspectives of whoever chooses to respond to its question, and naturally some responses will be made in challenge of the question being asked for potentially the same reason that it has been asked. what this thread has proven to me so far is that whatever description there has been given of a line separating 'gay' from 'straight' is arbitrary, with each definition offered owing more to the individual's personal outlook on the topic than it does on the possible reality of its subject. ultimately, anyone who offered their two cents relating to that question was talking about themselves, because that's what the thread invites any of us into doing.. and yes, some of us may cuss in the process, if that actually bothers anyone enough to note.

Oct 18, 2021 - permalink

i was under the impression that the thread was about entertaining the perspectives of whoever chooses to respond to its question, and naturally some responses will be made in challenge of the question being asked for potentially the same reason that it has been asked.

No one's arguing otherwise. I was responding to the poster who's under the impression that everybody but the folks who "have no real worry" are somehow irritated by the discussion, when the opposite is demonstrable.

ultimately, anyone who offered their two cents relating to that question was talking about themselves

For sure. What I'm getting at is the difference between replying to a question by offering your perspective and getting up on a solipsistic neon-lit soapbox pointing at yourself.

and yes, some of us may cuss in the process, if that actually bothers anyone enough to note.

Feel free to cuss like a sailor. But, as per my point to the poster I was replying to, don't then say that the other side of the argument is irritated in an attempt to claim some sort of higher ground.

Oct 18, 2021 - permalink

So much word salad in this thread; at least it's entertaining.

Oct 19, 2021 - permalink

This is going to lead to someone writing a college thesis, I bet you.

fp909
5 days ago - permalink

im willing to bet it's already been done lol

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