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Seems like the discussions are going to open up a bit more with Hannah's video, which I appreciate because I find this topic fascinating. Nathalie is one of the most beautiful people on this cite. I just hope the discussions don't get toxic, cause to me the way nathalie is talking about steroids, and herself, feels really strange. Calling herself a unicorn, controlled and strategic, feels like a lot of arrogance, with a hyperfocus on beauty and performance, when there is much more to life than that. To dismiss the side effects with essentially saying "im strong asf lul, worth" seems to be missing the point of all this discussion. I hope she still feels this way in 5, 10, 20 years. Cause it'll be really ironic if her "strategy" backfired, and the unicorn turns into a plain horse.
Nathalie understands the golden rule of being an influencer: never miss an opportunity to secure the bag.
What next, selling training and cycle plans?
This is exactly what she's selling. It's a sneaky ad.
The way she describes this turns me on, so I’m probably gay.
Hehe, that's a fantasy that holds a lot of validity in the fantasy world, my man. It's quite common to want a woman to be bigger, taller, stronger, or even masculine enough to push some gender limits, and you find that pleasurable. Don't worry.
But as for lady's testosterone level, it's really, really high. I mean, this is REALLY HIGH :D. As far as I know, the testosterone range for men is generally set between 300 and 1000. In some cases, it's okay to exceed this level. So, right now, this girl has even surpassed male standards. Like She's beyond masculine :D. Frankly, that doesn't sound very convincing to me. I know that even for gender reassignment, the testosterone level given and maintained is around 300. Even for most female bodybuilders with huge mass, it's difficult to reach the base male testosterone level range; they can only reach around 300-400 with a really considerable high effort. And this is a very very rare part.
This strikes me as false information intended as an advertisement about coaching, or rather, maybe a kinda fetish tease. However, if someone is knowledgeable, they can provide more precise information about these things.
I don't know...
Supposedly a lot of it has to do with genetics, so what she's doing comes across as bragging about having a winning lottery ticket and it somewhat undermines the struggles that other women have had to go through in their own bodybuilding journeys.
I mean based on how much she takes it does not look that effective on her. She has both muscles and beauty, but unicorn? Nah.
Normal female testosterone levels - 15-70. Her's - 1100 so that's about 15 times the normal maximum, but it isn't reckless, according to her.
Perhaps she should go to the next Society for Endocrinology's conference, and publish that in the Endocrine Journal, and see what actual physicians and professors of endocrinology think about that statement.
I think they might laugh her out of the room.
I think that if it's working for her, who cares?
If you keep the DHT in check, you can run testosterone that high. It would require using finasteride or dutasteride. The DHT from the conversion of testosterone via the 5aR enzyme is what masculinizes you. I am sure she does keep her TT at 1100. What I don't understand is why you would want to play Russian roulette with finasteride when you can use Boldenone. It is an extremely poor substrate for 5aR and Aromatase enzyme activity, you can stack it on your HRT, and keep your bioidenticals in physiological range. Most females I coach run this for injectables, awesome results, no virilization if you keep the doses sane. I should ping her just to see what she says. I am sure it won't come cheap, but I'd be curious on her cycles and recommendations.
Any female at 1100 TT, unless you have outrageously high SHBG, or your using a 5aR inhibitor, you will have a complete FtM conversion. I don't care what she says. Virilization sets in anytime you see FT over 6ng/dL. An unchecked 1100 TT will have FT 20-30 easily. Her even posting that stat without proper context is reckless and stupid.
so all the girls we see in real life with a physique like her's are on that much testo?
and we thought "oh it's just a bit of anavar...." lol
Lol, I don't think so, as I mentioned above. It's difficult even for a man to reach these figures. Frankly, I'm not even fully convinced of the results. I know they only give around 300 for a sex change. Even for most large female bodybuilders, it's difficult to reach the rates we're talking about. Most of them cannot enter that range, and even if they do, it is with a very intense and special effort and they usually reach the minimum base male point. But I am not so sure if this case is true :D
Normal female testosterone levels - 15-70. Her's - 1100 so that's about 15 times the normal maximum, but it isn't reckless, according to her.
Perhaps she should go to the next Society for Endocrinology's conference, and publish that in the Endocrine Journal, and see what actual physicians and professors of endocrinology think about that statement.
I think they might laugh her out of the room.
I haven't followed Nathalie's IG that closely, but do you know whether she's previously disclosed her pre-PED baselines and if so, what they were? I suppose I could just ask her, but maybe someone here already knows. I mean, if she was 150 at the start, 6-7x'g a number like that could be more sustainable than the crowd might think. Mind you, she is young (maybe 29-30?), but being young does not necessarily mean inexperienced. If she began using 10 years ago - I don't know, just using a round number for conversation's sake - then surely she'd have relevant experience and could potentially provide guidance for other women in their 20s who are thinking about experimenting.
Ok, chiming in as someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Most of the replies here are speculation or fantasy. Safety isn’t subjective.
Response to tre_sayer
I haven't followed Nathalie's IG that closely, but do you know whether she's previously disclosed her pre-PED baselines and if so, what they were?
I don’t think so. She’s been enhanced for a long time and has talked about it before, but no specific numbers as far as I can tell.
I suppose I could just ask her, but maybe someone here already knows. I mean, if she was 150 at the start, 6-7x'g a number like that could be more sustainable than the crowd might think.
That’s just wrong. It’s extremely unlikely any XX female naturally had levels that high. You’d be talking adrenal tumor levels. And even if somehow true, it wouldn’t make supraphysiological exposure sustainable.
Her free testosterone is 42.1 pg/mL. LabCorp’s male range is 9.3–26.5, with a mean of 17.9. That puts her 5.6 standard deviations above the male average (given a 95% reference range, which is what LabCorp uses). Statistically, >99.997% of men are below that. This is 1 in thousands of men who reach these levels. And then how many of those men wouldn't present masculine? Let's assume 1 in a thousand as well (conservatively, it's probably more like 1 in millions at these levels). For a woman to maintain that without virilization would be a 1-in-millions scenario.
She’s probably on other AAS too. Things like Anavar bind to SHBG and free up more testosterone. They also bind more preferentially to muscle tissue. Combine that with high T doses and you get systemic androgenic activity, not just muscle gain.
Some people speculate maintaining normal estrogen:testosterone ratios can slow virilization. Maybe. But at high enough T levels, estrogen can’t keep up globally with compensatory binding (it's simply at too low of absolute levels to bind to as many cells as testosterone). At best, it slows extreme sides. It doesn’t stop them.
So no, this isn’t sustainable long term without side effects. If she runs this a few weeks a year, maybe the sides accumulate slower. But they will accumulate. No one escapes that. Not men, not women.
Mind you, she is young (maybe 29-30?), but being young does not necessarily mean inexperienced. If she began using 10 years ago - I don't know, just using a round number for conversation's sake - then surely she'd have relevant experience and could potentially provide guidance for other women in their 20s who are thinking about experimenting.
Doesn’t matter. Response to PEDs is highly individual. The fact that she’s asserting these levels are fine, for any female, tells me she lacks the experience or nuance to guide others safely.
My background
I’ve done extensive research, use PEDs myself, and coach my girlfriend, who’s been enhanced for about 10 months now. Other than minor clit growth, no major virilization. She’s gained 20–22 lbs of lean mass and is leaner than when she started. I’ve also talked directly with coaches who work with female athletes.
Key rule: females shouldn’t be using high testosterone. If it’s used at all, it should stay within natural female ranges (sub-70 ng/dL). Use drugs with high anabolic selectivity and a track record of success in women.
Examples of commonly used compounds/doses:
Avoid Nandrolone, Masteron, Tren, Superdrol (worst -> best, but don't use those). Way more likely to cause issues. Avoid stacking, except for advanced usage, after separate use of the drugs in the stack, and accept risks of sides are much higher.
Even for those “safe” cycles above, repeated high-end use will cause virilization in most women after 5–6 cycles.
On Nathalie
Compare her voice this year vs last: clear deepening. And her physique hasn’t progressed enough to justify that level of change. My guess: after getting with Dino, she went all-in on more aggressive drug use. Just look at Madison Dinges (who he used to coach/date). Impressive physique, but significant virilization. Wouldn’t be surprised if Nathalie is heading down the same path.
Nathalie Nichols appears to be opening up (not sure whether related to Hannah's video or coincidental).
"I’m not natural. I’m not ashamed. And I’m not afraid to tell you the truth. I’ve been able to remain feminine while achieving a top 1% physique. this didn’t happen by chance and it’s why I’ve remained a unicorn 🦄 in the bodybuilding community.
Most of what you’ve been told about female PEDs is either outdated, male-centered, or just plain wrong.
If you’re ready to go from “lifestyle coach” to real muscle mommy—let’s talk gear."