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It would nice to know that some of the girls are completely natty but, I like having very muscular girls too. I dont know.
Well, not implying that current bodybuilding must go...
For there to be a reform, there has to be a demand for it. Where is the demand? Are there women out there advocating for "beauty contests with muscles?"
Your parameters sound more arbitrary and in some parts paradoxical. There is no limit to how muscular they are, but they can't be too defined. They work their butts off, but within the limits of "natural health," whatever that means. What constitutes "beauty?" It honestly sounds more like some bikini contest at a nightclub where the judges are club promoters or whatever.
How would the bodyfat limit be judged? Body fat distribution is highly genetic: you could have a competitor who genetically stores most of their body fat in their abdomen, and even if they are at the absolute "limit" of whatever parameter that competition sets, they will be at a severe disadvantage through no fault of their own against a competitor who has a more even distribution. Yes, bodybuilding competitions are inherently biased towards genetics, but what you are proposing makes that even more pronounced.
I don't think most women go into physique competitions with "sex appeal" as the primary motivation, and while there instances of bias among bodybuilding judges that warrants its own topic, the goals and motivation goes beyond sex appeal ostensibly towards men. In other words, this kind of "competition" seems more inclined towards what schmoes want versus actual competitors. And if someone wants to enter a competition like what you describe, there are countless bars and clubs that offer those bikini contests. Hell, Brittany Diamond entered one at a Vegas dayclub, and while I don't know how she did she certainly wasn't turned away just because she was enormously muscular.
What I mean by no limitations for muscularity but limitations on how lean and defined the competitors are, is removing the discrimination where a competitor becomes too muscular for a category (Bikini, Figure etc) and also discourage the pursuit of extreme leanness that would require diuretics and steroids that such contests would aim to get rid of.
Subjectivity of the judges? Well, let's declare the winner based on the average of judges' and the audience's votes.
And yes, why not, let's start with clubs, muscle beaches and YouTube and then expand to actual venues for hosting these.
I do believe such a down-to-earth format would sell better and gain popularity much faster.
For there to be a reform, there has to be a demand for it. Where is the demand? Are there women out there advocating for "beauty contests with muscles?"
Your parameters sound more arbitrary and in some parts paradoxical. There is no limit to how muscular they are, but they can't be too defined. They work their butts off, but within the limits of "natural health," whatever that means. What constitutes "beauty?"
and the audience's votes.
I do not think audience votes should ever be a part of any bodybuilding, or "muscular women beauty" competition because of this personal experience.
I used to live in a major city in the U.S. where one of the newspapers would do a Best Of contest every year where reader votes would determine the winner. There was an listing for best Mexican restaurant. Again, let me reiterate I lived in a large metropolitan area, and I also lived in a city that was known for excellent Mexican restaurants. In fact, with as much good competition that the city has, it could have been a tossup for at least a half-dozen restaurants. Do you know what wound up winning?
Taco Bell
This wasn't just a one year fluke either. Taco bell "won" best Mexican restaurant multiple years in a row. So no, I don't think the audience should ever vote on bodybuilding or bodybuilding-like competitions ever lol.
I do not think audience votes should ever be a part of any bodybuilding, or "muscular women beauty" competition because of this personal experience.
I used to live in a major city in the U.S. where one of the newspapers would do a Best Of contest every year where reader votes would determine the winner. There was an listing for best Mexican restaurant. Again, let me reiterate I lived in a large metropolitan area, and I also lived in a city that was known for excellent Mexican restaurants. In fact, with as much good competition that the city has, it could have been a tossup for at least a half-dozen restaurants. Do you know what wound up winning?
Taco Bell
This wasn't just a one year fluke either. Taco bell "won" best Mexican restaurant multiple years in a row. So no, I don't think the audience should ever vote on bodybuilding or bodybuilding-like competitions ever lol.
The judges know what to look for and their whole job is to "judge".
The judges know what to look for and their whole job is to "judge".
And they judge based on their personal feelings. Sure there are "guidelines" but at the end of the day, this is a highly subjective sport where personal feelings have the ultimate say. How many times have we heard stories of copetitors constantly being told they need to be bigger, dryer, more defined only to then be told they need to down size and be softer? Not to mention the stories of winners being chosen not because they were the "best" but the most marketable, or those who gave sexual favours to the judges, yes it does happen. This has been an issue since the very first competitons in the late 1970s/early 1980s. You only have to look at the dramatic change in physiques in the first couple of years to realise it's been an ongoing issue.
There are whole organizations devoted to natural bodybuilding and fitness, and they don’t have nearly the audience attention or interest. It’s just a fact. The competitors don’t get the same size or shreds.
I am quite happy with the modern female bodybuilding scene. wellness and bikini looks very feminine but muscular. and physique women and heavy weight bodybuilding co-exists with them. they added another more light weight class. I personally want to see more of the fitness class because their posing routines are so cool and unique compared to the others but a lot of contests don't seem to have them . They should try to make the posing more diverse and creative in the other classes too. I do think you will get your wish since there will be more fbbs and more regional competitions in places that used to have little female bodybuilding activity. and this opens the door of different types of contests and body types
Oh well, looks like I have an idealistic worldview... Or I was just horny when I opened this thread lol. But yeah, money ruins everything, as always.
Semi-related, but I also wanted to add this: I have seen a number of people here and in other communities say things like they don't like women who are built from using steroids and that they are more into natural muscle. I am curious, though, if those who say that know what a truly natty physique looks like, because every time I ask they to show me examples of those types of women, they will send me pics of strength/physique athletes who, while on the smaller end, are still pretty clearly on PEDs when looking at it as someone who has experience with actually competing in strength sports. They say they like natural muscle, but I wonder if that's what they really like, or if it's more from a warped perspective from being on sites like this.
This is evident in women who have retired from bodybuilding, and presumably PED use, but still lift and look fit and have muscle. They will get a lot less attention than they did from their past physiques. Dani Reardon comes to mind. She was everyone's bodybuilding darling for many years, but even though she is still fit and still looks like she lifts, though is clearly not using drugs, her current physique doesn't get any attention from sites like this. Britt Miller is another example. Unlike Dani, she is more muscular and is probably back on PEDs, albeit fewer and less harsh compounds, but if you compare the number of likes her old physique got compared to her current muscular albeit downsized one, it's a clear difference.
What do you guys think? Is there any hope that there might be a shift or a branch-out in female bodybuilding towards making competitions more into beauty contests with muscles? Like brutally drug-tested, no discouragement of being too muscular and no encouragement to be very defined and shredded? In other words, girls working their butts off for athletic BEAUTY within the limits of their natural health. Athleticism and sex appeal without steroids or bodyfat below say 15%, and with much more presentation freedom?
And no, Bikini and even Fit Model don't seem to do the trick, unfortunately.
Thoughts?
Okay so like a natural bodybuilding contest but everyone has to be over 15% bodyfat and they all need to be REALLY beautiful, young, and sexy.
And they have more freedom of presentation, so they could like dance on a pole instead of just going through the usual routine of poses?
Hmmm, yeah I can't see any scenario where this ever becomes a sport, or ever really garners an audience as basically GWM is the only target market and guys here would sooner cut off their arm then go to an FBB event in person and buy a ticket.
That said, if you can become a crypto billionaire and self fund this, I think you'd get a ton of girls who would be super into it, provided they're paid a salary.
I do not think audience votes should ever be a part of any bodybuilding, or "muscular women beauty" competition because of this personal experience.
I used to live in a major city in the U.S. where one of the newspapers would do a Best Of contest every year where reader votes would determine the winner. There was an listing for best Mexican restaurant. Again, let me reiterate I lived in a large metropolitan area, and I also lived in a city that was known for excellent Mexican restaurants. In fact, with as much good competition that the city has, it could have been a tossup for at least a half-dozen restaurants. Do you know what wound up winning?
Taco Bell
This wasn't just a one year fluke either. Taco bell "won" best Mexican restaurant multiple years in a row. So no, I don't think the audience should ever vote on bodybuilding or bodybuilding-like competitions ever lol.
No effin way ... that's outrageous
Semi-related, but I also wanted to add this: I have seen a number of people here and in other communities say things like they don't like women who are built from using steroids and that they are more into natural muscle. I am curious, though, if those who say that know what a truly natty physique looks like, because every time I ask they to show me examples of those types of women, they will send me pics of strength/physique athletes who, while on the smaller end, are still pretty clearly on PEDs when looking at it as someone who has experience with actually competing in strength sports. They say they like natural muscle, but I wonder if that's what they really like, or if it's more from a warped perspective from being on sites like this.
This is evident in women who have retired from bodybuilding, and presumably PED use, but still lift and look fit and have muscle. They will get a lot less attention than they did from their past physiques. Dani Reardon comes to mind. She was everyone's bodybuilding darling for many years, but even though she is still fit and still looks like she lifts, though is clearly not using drugs, her current physique doesn't get any attention from sites like this. Britt Miller is another example. Unlike Dani, she is more muscular and is probably back on PEDs, albeit fewer and less harsh compounds, but if you compare the number of likes her old physique got compared to her current muscular albeit downsized one, it's a clear difference.
A lot of people like the look of PEDs but hate the idea of them and lack the ability to compartmentalize.
The FBB scene dies the day they start "brutal drug testing" as the OP suggests. Nothing would replace it because nobody wants to see natural people compete. There's zero market for it. So-called natural competitions already exist (even though most people competing in them are not natural) and there's zero audience.
But what if "natural" shows don't have an audience because
1) no one is really natural there and the audience rightly believes those shows are a joke
2) the true naturals look like jerky because, well, they still are obliged to lean down to essential fat %
Besides, Miss Universe (I mean the beauty queens lol) has lots of people in the auditorium, why not tickle more of their senses... Sex sells y'know.
A lot of people like the look of PEDs but hate the idea of them and lack the ability to compartmentalize.
The FBB scene dies the day they start "brutal drug testing" as the OP suggests. Nothing would replace it because nobody wants to see natural people compete. There's zero market for it. So-called natural competitions already exist (even though most people competing in them are not natural) and there's zero audience.
But what if "natural" shows don't have an audience because
1) no one is really natural there and the audience rightly believes those shows are a joke
2) the true naturals look like jerky because, well, they still are obliged to lean down to essential fat %
Besides, Miss Universe (I mean the beauty queens lol) has lots of people in the auditorium, why not tickle more of their senses... Sex sells y'know.
The FBB scene dies the day they start "brutal drug testing" as the OP suggests. Nothing would replace it because nobody wants to see natural people compete. There's zero market for it. So-called natural competitions already exist (even though most people competing in them are not natural) and there's zero audience.
Those are not reasons why natural shows don't have an audience. They don't have audiences because in general, when people go to bodybuilding shows, they want to see the freakiest, most muscular athletes on stage. They're not going to go to a show where the top competitors only look like a fraction of your average NPC competitor. And no, it's not because the audience (which as a whole is also woefully ignorant of the prevalence of steroid use) thinks that no one is actually natural at those shows.
Again, what you are proposing is something that really only has an interest amongst schmoes, and as has been said multiple times, represents a very, very, very niche audience (given how many have admitted to never actually going to a show). You can't say "Miss Universe has a packed auditorium" and think that a show like what you are proposing is going to have the same results. That's like believing your garage band can sell out the local VFW Hall because Metallica sells out stadiums. And while yes, "sex sells", it also depends on how it's presented and what the market is. If that were universally true, Hooters would not have had to file for bankruptcy protection and FHM would not have folded.
What do you guys think? Is there any hope that there might be a shift or a branch-out in female bodybuilding towards making competitions more into beauty contests with muscles? Like brutally drug-tested, no discouragement of being too muscular and no encouragement to be very defined and shredded? In other words, girls working their butts off for athletic BEAUTY within the limits of their natural health. Athleticism and sex appeal without steroids or bodyfat below say 15%, and with much more presentation freedom?
And no, Bikini and even Fit Model don't seem to do the trick, unfortunately.
Thoughts?