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What frustrates me most here is strong opinions from individuals who have little to no understanding of bodybuilding itself.
No woman, anywhere, is training so you can get off. What you, or anyone else, thinks is completely out of the equation.
The fact that you think 'men's encouragment' is a factor in a female bodybuilder's decisions, is frankly, misogynistic.
Bodybuilders (all genders) train for themselves. No one else matters.
A bit late to the party but so well put together.
If you listen to the interview, she talks about having done some periods on steroids and others without.
I subscribed to Herbiceps until they destroyed it with the new format. There were plenty of bikini, figure and fitness competitors that didn't use steroids yet were great looking. Think about Kelly Lynn. She was natural and sexy when she started. She took a 10 year break and came back looking way too huge because she used steroids. Rebekkah Willich was and is a stunner who clearly is natural. Maybe it's all about my tastes but I'll take natural over enhanced any day.
This again 🤦♂️
Jodi Miller isn't natural
Legal or not PEDs are rampant in all professional sports with the possible exception of billiards.
BODYBUILDING DOESN'T EXIST WITHOUT DRUGS. How many times do we have to say it?
The fact that you think 'men's encouragment' is a factor in a female bodybuilder's decisions, is frankly, misogynistic.
Bodybuilders (all genders) train for themselves. No one else matters.
No. It's just a disagreeable opinion. It has nothing to do with hatred of anything or fear of anything.
And saying something dumb "frankly" or "honestly" does not make it one bit more true.
Women in general and on average are far more interested in social approval and the opinion of other members of their gender than men are. Though sometimes effeminate men do come close.
Women actually seek approval from men either they themselves or the general opinion of other women have chosen. The relevant part here is that this excludes almost every random male reader or commenter on the Internet.
As a general rule, 90 % of what is called racism or sexism or hatred or fear these days isn't.
No. It's just a disagreeable opinion. It has nothing to do with hatred of anything or fear of anything.
And saying something dumb "frankly" or "honestly" does not make it one bit more true.
Women in general and on average are far more interested in social approval and the opinion of other members of their gender than men are. Though sometimes effeminate men do come close.
Women actually seek approval from men either they themselves or the general opinion of other women have chosen. The relevant part here is that this excludes almost every random male reader or commenter on the Internet.
As a general rule, 90 % of what is called racism or sexism or hatred or fear these days isn't.
You should tell that to women who lift/bodybuild/compete in strength sports. I’m sure they would warmly accept your opinions.
You should tell that to women who lift/bodybuild/compete in strength sports. I’m sure they would warmly accept your opinions.
What you're saying makes zero sense to me.
I was not and still am not looking for their approval. My previous message also makes clear why that wouldn't even be possible. So why would I tell everyone that something is not possible and then immediately try to do it anyway?
A sociological observation in order to be true does not need to be approved by the persons it is about.
For most on this forum - this will not be a popular view, because they are here because they have an attraction of some kind to the look of muscular women. If you actually follow the facts, most women that reach the professional levels of fitness would no longer clinically test - as a woman. Meaning, if you removed the name - and did a blood sample - the individual, would actually test as a man. This isn't up for debate - it's as they say, a scientific fact. All of the women who fit the "over the top" view of bodybuilding - have literally turned themselves into men with extended use of male hormones of one kind or another over an extended period of time. Whether it is good for their health - is a personal choice. Whether they look "good" or not - is a personal choice. What is fact - is that there really is practically no female bodybuilding....at some point, they have crossed the genetic rubicon and identify clinically, as men. The fantasy of it all - has nothing to do with the facts.
some of the sides are irreversable, but i think the point is that for the time being they are chemically testing as such. Dpeending on how hard the use is you of course have enlarged clitoris, jaw growth, deepening voice, and then hair loss in some areas, and growth in others, among other things.
I would be curious to see if anyone that went really hard for an extended period of time is still able to have a kid before 40 when that biological wall comes into play and safety becomes a bigger factor. Someone like Shannon Courtney had another kid after the bodybuilding career, but a lot of these top women at the O are up there in age. I would be willing to bet that of last years line up only Michaela Aycock is under 30. She is going pretty hard--you can very much see a very obvous transition over the years (that is pretty dramatic obiously), but at 26 she looks much older, and this year you can see a pretty big change from even her last WPD appearance. Upper lip looks a little darker, wouldn't be surprised if she had body hair popping up elsewhere. Zero breast tissue. Head is significantly larger looking than years ago.
it may be that she is not concerned about having a kid. I only for sure know that Margie (i think) has a kid and he's a bit older now, over 10.
if one is concerned with having kids this is obviously a factor in your career. i have a friend who is a bikini competitor who, if she uses at all uses very lightly, has told me she wants to freeze eggs now, do her comp career, then return after a few years for a kid. she's my age-ish, 29-31 so it's on her mind.
If you're "older", and you don't want kids or you already have one this is less of a factor. But i think that, plus something liek the sheer time it takes to put on enough mass to compete at the highest level without really messing up your body.
I think Michaela in particular has a singular drive that puts her aside from everywhere else and has driven both her success and her extraordinary growth. Remember--she's 27, and this is not her first year being bodybuilding size. AND she hasn't seriously trained upper body regularly (aka, for growth) since even before her surgery. that's absolutely insane.
a few others are under 30, but not many. alyssa kiessling, hunter henderson perhaps, anastasia leonova, anastasia korableva. my point though is that they are still women, not men
roberts5285 was referencing the chemistry of it, not the physical/bioliogical nature. You would be hard pressed to find any normal male with higher test levels than some of the women mentioned, and i'm sure most if not all of them have not had a period in recent memory (if they haven't already hit menopause, or take significant breaks between cycles).
and the ones under 30 are blasting, 100%.
"roberts5285 was referencing the chemistry of it, not the physical/bioliogical nature. You would be hard pressed to find any normal male with higher test levels than some of the women mentioned, and i'm sure most if not all of them have not had a period in recent memory (if they haven't already hit menopause, or take significant breaks between cycles).
and the ones under 30 are blasting, 100%."
That is the point indeed - to call them "women" is just not accurate when they are carrying levels of testosterone that high. When men take steroids - they are just adding more to their body (again, this is not a "is it healthy or pleasing look" argument) Social media influences young people to make decisions - the entire "are they fake or not" is not about calling them out - it is about being honest to young people who want to make their own choices.
they are women though, just on steroids. even if their test levels are high, biologically they are women, sexually speaking. and quite some have been able to have kids. i am not saying hormonally they are average women, they might have test levels of a man if not more, but their sex is still female..kinda obvious to me
anyways i notice there are a lots of threads that speak about the use of steroids in bodybuilding here. unless we talk about natural federations (in which btw there are some who could cheat) in the non tested feds it is a given that basically every pro level woman from figure onwards uses, and why shouldn't they if there is no testing? btw as someone pointed out id steroids were severely limited we would see a dramatic decrease on muscle mass in the pics of this site
they are women though, just on steroids. even if their test levels are high, biologically they are women, sexually speaking. and quite some have been able to have kids. i am not saying hormonally they are average women, they might have test levels of a man if not more, but their sex is still female..kinda obvious to me
i think y'all are talking against two sides of the same coin, tbh, and are both right.
also even down to bikini they are using something so there's no division that's immune.
as someone who is a on the pro-PED's use in pro sports I dont' really care about use in bodybuilding, unless it's coerced. People will do what they want. However, I am for transparency of use, because I especially don't like that many young kids who know nothing listen to the wankers who claim natty or deny deny deny only to find out their favorite natty is on juice. If they decide to take PEDs down the road that's fine but the average gym bro who will never compete shouldn't immediately jump on gear at like 18-19.
i am a powerlifter myself , and i don't mind the use of steroids on women. i was just debating that a woman on steroids is still a woman, even the ones who juice extremely hard. and i agree, thaat would be for another thread though. now that female muscle is not unicorn like as 10 years ago, i notice way more extremely young and jacked girl, a lot of which probably using steroids..but i digress.
i was just debating that a woman on steroids is still a woman, even the ones who juice extremely hard.
He made a claim and included some definitions. If you consider those definitions, then he is and has been 100 % correct all the time.
If you take half of what he said and insert your own definitions, then he is and has been 100 % wrong all the time.
In Aristotelian logic, definitions are not proven or argued about. They are given at the beginning of the reasoning process. If you give different definitions, then it's a different process. He knew his apples from his oranges and you have been basically saying that if apples were oranges then he'd be wrong and he's been responding with yes, but my apples are not my oranges, rinse and repeat.
Should bodybuilders use steroids?
Good question!
Inquiring minds also want to know: Should they breathe air?
Should they breathe air?
I suggest we make it a choice for them: Steroids or air.
I don't usually read the IG comments, but more than once I've seen a certain dude say, "I will pay 200 Euros to arm-wrestle you, and 500 if you win."